Lorain/Elyria, OH
Smoking ban gets costly for counties
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TOLEDO — County health departments are running up steep bills in their efforts to stamp out smoke across Ohio.
A year after the state’s smoking ban went into effect, some county health departments have found enforcement to be too costly, with at least a dozen local entities turning over inspection and violation duties to the Ohio Department of Health.
Under the law that went into effect last May, local health departments receive 90 percent of fines collected from businesses and individuals. The fines range from $100 to $2,500 and were intended to fund enforcement, but the state has collected a total of just $30,000 from local health departments around the state.
That amount falls far short of easing the financial burden placed on local departments, officials said. The Toledo-Lucas County health department alone has spent $40,000 hunting down violators, while banking just $630 in fines. Costs stem from overtime, mileage and other added expenses.
“It is a (financial) concern, and we’ve voiced that concern to the state,” said Alan Ruffell, the county’s director of environmental health.
Officials have received 29,714 violation complaints across Ohio, according to statistics compiled by the state.
In Erie and Ottawa counties, officials hired a part-time contract employee to help lower costs. That position alone costs nearly $16,000 a year, Erie County Health Commissioner Peter Schade said.
Counties struggling to enforce the ban can choose to turn over enforcement to the state with 30 days’ notice, said Ohio Department of Health spokesman Kristopher Weiss. But state health officials are working with local departments to make the process more efficient and less costly, he said.
Inspectors should be able to write tickets and hold civil hearings, instead of being forced to navigate cumbersome, paperwork-intensive procedures, said Brad Espen, Wood County’s director of environmental health.
Other officials say warning letters and fines should not be sent as certified mail, which is time-consuming and costly.
“You just get buried in it,” Espen said. “By the time you collect $100, you’ve already spent way more than that.”
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Maybe the state could put more tax on tobacco to cover the enforcement costs
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Nothing in the smoking law circumvents the Constitutional Rights of “Due Process”. If the Health Department Inspectors are acting as Police Officers in enforcing the anti-smoking laws, they should be required to follow the same legallities as the police… including undergoing mandatory certided peace officer training, obtaining search warrents, following rules of evidence, providing proof of service (personal service or certified mail) of any violations as well as many other procedures.
This stuff of calling them “cival violations” , acting on anonamous “tips”, forcing their way into private businesses and conducting non-consentual searches, and trying cases on hear-say evidences in kangaroo courts (Health Department Administrative Reviews) and administering undefined fines of $100.00 to $2,500.00 is very much a violation of everyones Cival Rights; and very similar to Hitler’s Gestopo tactics.
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Omg, is anyone evem comprehending whay you are reading in this article? RJR hit the nail right on the head. What the hell is wrong with you people that are condoning what is going on here? Big Brother at it’s best to say the least. I don’t think they work this hard to catch drug dealers and users. Personally I think this gets funnier by the minute. How long before people start using their God given common sense and realize what a joke this whole thing is? The health Department playing the smoking police is absolutely hilarious and then whining they are losing money. What’s next? Considering their salaries are paid by the smokers they are chasing and giving fines too, they might possibly reasses what their real job is. I wonder when the health department employees will be allowed to carry guns to chase down those horrible law breaking smokers?
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Put the cost on Beer and Wine sales, or more gas tax… since its the non-smokers who want to be protected from the mean smokers.
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I totally agree Haxor. Make cigarettes $7.50 a pack. It’s so amazing to me that we have a FDA that takes years to approve prescription drugs, but you can buy cigarettes over the counter and they kill thousands of people every year. It’s not like alcohol where you can drink alcohol in moderation and it’s not bad for you. You can’t smoke in moderation and have it not be bad for you. No amount of smoking is safe. Tax the crap out of cigarettes.
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aterryw, why should non-smokers be punished to be protected from people who have a deadly habit?
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When will Ohio wake up and realize it’s not the only state in this country? Why must Ohio continue to fail at everything it attempts?
Ohio was not the first to have a statewide smoking ban such as it has now. How about taking a look at how other states implement and enforce (and pay for enforcing) their smoking bans, instead of just shrugging our hands in the air like morons saying “Gee gawrsh I didn’t know it would cost so much!!”
Oh, and before we launch into this “the government encroaching into our private lives” nonsense, may I remind everyone that 64% of voters voted for Issue 5 in 2006, so if anyone is to “blame,” *they* are. (Oh wait, I forgot, everyone was misled by the ballot language. I sure as hell wasn’t; I knew exactly what I was voting for.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States
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They are the ones complaining.
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Tax food based on weight according to the federal guidelines a safe way for the obese to starve to the correct weight. Tax alcohol to keep young people from starting to drink that way those who drink can be stop from becoming drunks. Tax prescription drugs for the junkies who get them…
Wait, instead of going after all the victims of legalized drugs, food to obese, alcohol to the drunks which I hear is a real sickness, nicotine which I hear is an real strong addiction…. should we go after the ones who profit by making addicts and keeping them?
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Food in moderation is a GOOD thing. Alcohol in moderation is fine. Prescription drugs when used appropriately improve and save lives.
Cigarettes in ANY quantity are BAD. There is beneficial about cigarettes.
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How about testing the people who are on public assistance for nicotine. If they test positive for nicotine then they forfit there welfare check. If they are on public assistance they should not be spending that money on cigerettes, and if the money is comeing from someplace else for the cigerettes then i guess they wouldnt need the public assistance.. Then that save money could go to police the smokeing ban .
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Lets tax the rich and those who make money off of addictions and let them pay to get them off their nicotine addiction which I hear is worse than regular “addictions”… Tax who profit and all those with investments, IRAs, etc. thar are connected to wine, food, and tobacco….. why should the poor again be the ones to suffer… since its the rich who make the money from their targeted addiction.
Since nicotine is an addiction… like other drugs.. go after the pusher and ween the smokers off their addiction…
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why should the ones on public assistance be alowed to spend our tax dollars to puff on cigerettes , alchol and drugs ?
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Why not… this is a free country, which rights of yours would you like to have taken away too? You take one of theirs, and they get to chose which one of your rights they will take away…..
Starts simple and then soon … no rights
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Here’s a tip for ConcernedMom, Candlebabe,Haxor,Chris,Phil,JackMiller,gypsy180,atterryw
Lagranger and Redhead out debated all of your arguments and comments like you were a bunch of 3rd graders arguing with their teacher. As funny as this was to read, you all need to get off this topic and go comment on another story to save yourself from more embarrassment.
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Well now , better check your facts , Concernedmon, Phil, Jackmiller, gypsy180 Nor has lagranger. has ever made one single comment on this story , so now who looks like they have a clue about what they are talking about . So here is a tip for you eld25 , read before you spout !!!!!!
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Maybe we should leave it up to the establishment whether they want smoking or non-smoking. Maybe that would be the fairest thing to do.
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eld25—-can you read? I haven’t made a single comment on this story. Before you start running off at the mouth or in this case keyboard why don’t you do a little growing up first. And for your information Mr. Know-It-All; the only thing lagranger and redhead did was belittle my parenting when they don’t even know me. Oh so I guess I was a bad mother for smoking around my child who just happens to be healthy as a horse. At least I think before I open my mouth or type something online.
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RJR—-you seem to be right on the money with your comment. I have to say I totally agree with you 100%
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I understand what RJR is stating, but health inspectors already are given authority to go into a business to do spot and surprise inspections.
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Folks, this is one of the biggest jokes of the century. All they did was create jobs to enforce a law that is completely impossible to enforce. Why should we care who smokes and where they smoke. If you don’t like the bar or saloon they are doing this in, DON’T GO THERE!!
The government will spend a fortune and get NOTHING IN RETURN other that to give their cronies a job.
Think about worrying about real crime, the economy, and other much more important issues!
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It was to protect workers also and how can you say a smoking ban is protecting workers when it has done nothing but kill business at the small local bars and therefore hours are cut - tips are down and you don’t see this on the front page of the local papers!!! I agree with JohnBear that if you don’t like it go else where. Make local bars post a sign that says this is a smoking bar and if they really want more money from small business people sell us a license to allow smoking. As you can probably tell I own a small bar and feel the pain of the smoking ban. And one other comment is when they do some in to check on those anonymous allegations of allowing smoking, if they see people smoking in the bar they don’t fine them, they just send certified letters to the bar. Owners have been told to bother the local police force if a patron doesn’t want to put out a cigarette!!! This is crazy. The local police need to take care of the drug problems before taking care of the person who is smoking something legal.
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HAXor… lol great line, glad you added your comment to the list, glad your reading all the comments…..
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Quote: It was to protect workers also and how can you say a smoking ban is protecting workers when it has done nothing but kill business at the small local bars and therefore hours are cut - tips are down and you don’t see this on the front page of the local papers!!!
When NY passed their no smoking law the economy was strong and growing. Revenue grew at restaurants and bars after the non smoking went into effect.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE2D91E30F93AA15750C0A9629C8B63&sec=health
The increase in revenue was due to a strong economy not the new non-smoking laws in NY. Restaurants and bars take the biggest hit during a poor economy. The owners are blaming their lack of revenue on the non-smoking laws. They need to realize it’s not the non-smoking laws.
As posted above, the majority (64%) of Ohio voters do not want smoking in bars and restaurants. That (64%) want this law enforced. I believe there are certain bars that have decided they are not going to comply. The local health departments should start fining those few places $2,000 a day to pay for their efforts. It will fix the problem fast.
SeanH
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There is a great article on page E1 of Sundays (5/4) Chronicle Telegram. The title is ‘A little something for less’. The entire article is about how the current economic conditions are affecting the restaurant and bar business. Here are a couple of quotes.
“I am hanging out a lot less at clubs and bars. I don’t have the money,†Best said.
“Big men will come in and order littler steaks than they used to,†Bechtel said
Jazzie109 do think people are ordering smaller steaks to save money or do you still blame the no smoking laws.
SeanH
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concernedmom,
If you think before you open your mouth or type something, I hate to see when you don’t.
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RJR and CONCERNEDMOM(?)
The Health Department ALREADY performs unannounced inspections of every food serving establishment in this state.
The Health Department ALREADY follows up on anonymous complaints of unsanitary conditions.
If they didn’t, you would probably be eating in a roach infested filthy diner or bar. (and probably complain about it).
They are acting with the AUTHORITY they have had for decades to keep you and I healthy.
Health Department officials investigate smoking complaints as they receive them, and when they enter an establishment that has numerous complaints, and there are people smoking there, then it’s a slam dunk that the ESTABLISHMENT itself that is allowing illegal behavior.
Laws exist in todays society for the good of the MAJORITY.
The MAJORITY voted for the ban.
The MAJORITY of us have put up with selfish smokers for over a hundred years.
The MAJORITY will now have THEIR hundred years of eating and drinking without smelling your nasty smoke.
We can revisit the smoking ban after OUR time is up…
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“The MAJORITY voted for the ban.”
- Politically correct this time…..
- I remember stories about the Jim Crow era laws
- laws were written for racial segregation….
“Laws exist in todays society for the good of the MAJORITY.”
“The MAJORITY of us have put up with selfish smokers for over a hundred years.”
- Guess the smokers had to put up with the holier than thou’s and rude non-smokers during the same time frame? Former non-smokers are the worst, when it comes to the holiers……..
“The MAJORITY will now have THEIR hundred years of eating and drinking without smelling your nasty smoke.”
— Then what else will non-smokers have to complain about? To much Ice in the tea.? the price of gas.. obama, Billery..
“We can revisit the smoking ban after OUR time is up…”
— Yeah let put it on the next generation to solve….
Once this little smoking issue is fixed, then we we can worry about what you can and can’t do, while traveling, who listens on your phone calls, rights taken away to ensure your safety, who you love/marry, fingerprint readers at locations, Big Brother, Federal Biometric Identification Cards, biometric Passports….hmmmmmm…
In the realm of things the smoking issue seems to be a dead issue on both sides…. Let’s have a Drink!
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This just go to show you that facist laws simply do not pay!!
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I can guarantee that the smoking ban will never be repealed. Talk about an ignorant step backwards. What kind of half wits would repeal a law that prevents innocent, nonsmoking men, women and children from getting lung diseases and cancer?
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Quote: What kind of half wits would repeal a law that prevents innocent, nonsmoking men, woman, and children from getting lung diseases and cancer…..
Although I agree that the law should not be repealed, there are other things that cause lung diseases and cancer. A smoking ban does not PREVENT them. Non smoking steel workers get lung diseases, there are a lot of children at rainbow babies and children’s hospital who have cancer not related to smoking. There are different types of cancer.
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SheanH well to tell you the truth - the food is fine people aren’t cutting down on that - they don’t stay for long periods of time. I just feel that the local neighborhood bar should have a more relaxed ban - Applebees - Fridays - etc. it is fantastic to have no smoking - but a bar that is just that a bar that offers some food - should be relaxed.
People will go out and smoke and follow the law - but get tired of doing that and leave - usually a lot sooner than when they could sit and smoke and drink. Smoking and “bars” - people can decide to go in or not - and can also decided to go or not with the large food chains, but the large food chains will increase their business because people will still eat that big steak (or small steak if their funds are down) but to go the bar to have a beer and wings and a smoke - well if they can’t smoke and they are a smoker, they won’t go and I’ll tell you the non smokers are not showing up as we were made to believe!
I am hoping that it will sooner than later change and people will come and stay and not smoke, but for now it is a hit for the employees who elect to work in bars and have been working there for years before the smoking ban.
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ALLknowing: Your on to something here…. If “steel workers get lung diseases” “coal miners get black lung diseases” perhaps we should create laws to stop the producing of steel and the mining of coal. This way we can protect everyone from the evils of steel producing and coal mining plus protect the envirioment from the air pollution and strip mining. By doing this we can protect everyone the same way we need/want to protect people from second, third, fourth-hand smoking…
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aterryw - that is a great comment!!! I agree completely. People work all day in the mines, foundries, and then they can’t smoke - unbelievable.
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Jazzie109,
Lol…nice.. Just wanting to protect the enviroment and those who work to support the “dream”…. So lets unplug all the hair dryers, electric stoves, use nothing with steel, iron, etc and then to walk the neighborhood store…… an then we can protect those who work in an enviroment that causes them work related sickness…. need to protect everyone… smokers, non-smokers, miners, non-miners, steel workers, non-steel workers, firemen, non-firemen, business owners, and those who whine about something if life doesn’t go their way….. or just need something to whine about…
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From the American Lung Association:
Three of the most serious toxic pollutants from gasoline—benzene, formaldehyde and 1,3 butadiene—have been found to cause various cancers.
“It’s impossible for people to escape vehicle exhaust. People and vehicles coexist in neighborhoods,” said Kennedy, who has worked with people with breathing difficulties for nearly 20 years. “Pedestrians walk and jog next to cars sending chemical mixes out their tailpipes, and people stand beside gas pumps filling their tanks as fumes rise into the atmosphere.”
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Do you all want some cheese and crackers with your whine? Shutup already and get a life.
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I agree 100% with Boomer
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I would expect nothing more from mental midgets
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Haxor and Concerned Mom,
Thank the Chronicle. I posted that comment on the article where Concerned Mom got belittled about smoking around her children. The Chronicle decided to put it on this article. Anyway, thanks for the correction, continue with your comical comments. They’re great !!
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Oh Sure blame the chronicle , God knows you could not possibly make a mistake , much less admit to it , Your right , you are quite comical .
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Steel workers and miners get lung diseases from their jobs. Is smoking is a job that you get PAID for doing? In that case, sign me up! Just kidding! I wouldn’t subject myself and others to that kind of filth even if you paid me.
Do nonsmokers get a WAGE to inhale poisonous secondhand smoke?
Some of the points made on here are so irrelevant that it’s hilarious.
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I can’t believe folks are still arguing this issue on here. Everything that can be said on the subject has been written and is being repeated like a tape loop.
Remember - Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win you’re still retarded.
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Thats funny Jack. Haxor come up here and get your gold medal.
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What is really saddening is that in our intelligent, enlightened society we can’t just have a little common courtesy. If smokers would just treat the non-smokers who wish not be be subjected to a potentially life threatening carcinogen a little respect the law might not have passed or even been needed. When I see a mother holding a little baby while chain smoking I am shocked. If you don’t respect even your own child you won’t respect other’s rights.
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Lol… I’ve seen non-smokers ask those who were smoking to stop for whatever reason and they did with no problem and everyone was nice.
But I’ve seen non-smokers go ballistic/rude and tell someone who is smoking to stop… and they were ignored… wonder why.
Perhaps society should become more politically correct, or not, since everyone seems to tell someone else how to live their lives, for whatever reason… Society as a whole has made the devaluation of life EASY, from its wars, latch key kids, video games we allow our children to play, to shows on TV, etc, etc…
Seems the issue is bigger than just where to smoke, society is becoming isolated, how many people actually talked with their neighbors. Have neighborhood cook-outs, actually say Hello to someone and meant it. But its about me, how does it effect me,..me, me, me….
If everyone were more concerned about us, and our, and we, think things would be better, than blaming them and they. Think the issue of smoking just allows everyone to try to connect in whatever way they can to others…. since we all are neighbors in one way or another, and just want to connect since we are a social being….
If not… oh well…. Lol lol
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aterryw, I totally agree with you. That would be so wonderful if people were more friendly and not absorbed in THEMSELVES. I have lost count on how many times I have said “Hello” or “Have a nice day” and have gotten completely ignored. People are so quick to judge and focus only on themselves.
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