Lorain/Elyria, OH
Firefighters: We`ll only fight fires
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Mayor Grace: Department’s plan won’t happen
ELYRIA — Running out the fire station door for every medical emergency call will stop if proposed Fire Department plan to shift responsibilities back to just fighting fires is implemented.
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PROPOSED 1. Stop responding first to medical emergencies. A medical emergency is defined as a life-threatening call such as difficulty breathing, heart attack, stroke and trauma. The fire department will respond to calls only when its expertise is requested by a direct call to dispatch. 2. Stop making overtime available for training of specialty teams. Those include Hazardous Material Response Team (Hazmat Team); Water Rescue Team, Lorain County Fire Investigators and the Lorain County Technical Rescue Team. 3. Terminate the Elyria Hazmat Team. The Hazmat Team needs an enormous amount of equipment. However, Dempsey said the team’s current equipment is outdated. And, with no money in the budget to replace the equipment, the team will not be sent out in outdated, inadequate gear. The city is still contracted to aid the county hazmat team, paying a yearly stipend of $2,000. As such, two Elyria firefighters will still work on the team. 4. No longer allow the Lorain County Emergency Management Agency to house emergency response equipment in the fire stations. This includes a hazmat zone trailer, technical rescue trailer and mass causality trailer. 5. Stop the practice of responding to animal rescue calls and providing public education programs. |
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The sweeping change is being asked for by fire officials who are finally chiming in with plans of their own after months of Mayor Bill Grace solely dictating directives.
Assistant Chief Bob Dempsey, who is acting fire chief in Chief John Zielinski’s absence, recommended the changes Wednesday in a letter addressed to Grace. It was in response to Grace’s order to permanently close Fire Station 2 on Broad Street and consolidate responsibilities among three fire districts.
“The fact remains that we cannot do it all,” Dempsey said. “We cannot continue to tell people that we can provide them with a certain level of safety when, in actuality, we can’t. The reality is cuts have been made to this department, and we are just unable to provide the same level of service with 14 guys as we did with 17.”
The most visible change residents could see only happens after 911 calls are made.
Dempsey said the Fire Department should stop the practice of responding first to medical emergencies as soon as possible.
Instead, LifeCare ambulances or another private ambulance service should show up when 911 is called and the Fire Department should only come if its expertise is needed.
A medical emergency is defined as a life-threatening event such as difficulty breathing, heart attack, stroke and trauma.
“We have a large call volume in the city and only three trucks in service,” Dempsey said. “It’s very difficult to suggest these kinds of changes, but it’s something that has to happen because we can’t do it with the manpower we have now. We are not happy about this.”
Grace’s response to Dempsey’s letter was swift.
“We will continue to go on emergency medical calls. That policy change is not going to happen, not in the foreseeable future,” Grace said. “It’s an important service we provide to the residents of Elyria, and any adjustment we make to the Fire Department will not affect that service.”
Herb de la Porte, vice president of LifeCare Ambulances, said such a policy shift would result in deaths.
He said that if there’s an emergency at a busy Elyria location such as Midway Mall, it takes firefighters three minutes to get there and about six minutes for an ambulance because of where the vehicles are stationed.
“That’s not much of a time difference unless you aren’t breathing. Then it’s life and death,” de la Porte said.
Lorain firefighters union head Tony Bucci said when Lorain dropped its level from 19 on-duty firefighters to 17 because of a looming budget deficit, they too were forced to stop serving as first responders.
“It came out of necessity, it wasn’t something we wanted to give up,” Bucci said. “But the reason is similar to what Elyria (fire) is facing.”
Bucci said firefighters often have an advantage of getting to a destination first because of the strategic location of fire stations. But when manpower is cut, he said, a firefighter’s first duty is fighting fires.
“There are only so many things you can do with the amount of people,” he said. “They’re put in a tough position of being a firefighter or a first responder, and their primary mission is being a firefighter. I agree with their recommendation and wish them luck.”
De la Porte sees the situation differently.
Firefighters are trained to give CPR until medics arrive, he said, and it’s that training that can get a pulse or respiration started strong enough to get a patient to EMH Regional Medical Center.
There are about 50 cases each year in Lorain and Elyria in which a victim isn’t breathing, de la Porte said. Lorain doesn’t have first responder service, and up until now that’s meant a higher survivability rate in Elyria, he said.
De la Porte said he was surprised Wednesday when The Chronicle-Telegram informed him of Dempsey’s intent to end the first responder program because the acting chief had not contacted de la Porte for input.
He said he is confident Grace will countermand Dempsey.
“It doesn’t make any sense,” de la Porte said. “Ending the program would be very bad news.”
Grace and Dempsey will meet today to discuss the contents of the letter.
However, Grace on Wednesday characterized it as a “gross over-reaction to previous requests to cut the number of fire stations and a call to perform some routine duties.” It is the latest example of the department “hitting an all-time low” in its current leadership, he said.
With Zielinski on extended medical leave, Grace said the administration is looking into all lawful options as for the future leadership of the department.
Additional changes include providing no overtime for specialty team training, terminating the Elyria Hazmat Team, no longer allowing county EMA equipment to be housed in fire stations and stopping the practice of animal rescue and providing public fire safety education.
Tom Kelley, head of the county’s Emergency Management Agency, said he had a brief conversation with Grace about Dempsey’s letter.
“He said not to worry about that right now,” Kelley said. He declined to comment further on what the new policy would mean for the EMA.
As for the rest of the proposed changes, Grace said most, if not all, will likely not come to fruition.
Dempsey said the changes are necessary because the reduction of staff and the closure of Fire Station 2, both directives of Grace, have adversely affected the department.
“Our training has suffered greatly because we just don’t have the manpower to do it all,” he said. “Training is the most important thing we can do for our guys to prepare them for a fire. We have to equip them and train them, but with 14 guys training has been going by the wayside.”
To restore the cut services, Dempsey said Grace would need to restore minimum staffing to 17 firefighters and reopen Fire Station 2.
The ongoing struggle between the mayor and the Fire Department has ruffled more than a few feathers on City Council, which is still pushing for an independent audit to help determine the department’s future.
The management study must still be seen as a critical component, said Councilman Vic Stewart, D-at large.
“Right now, the mayor is trying to do what he feels is best for the administration and the city, and the same can be said for the Fire Department,” he said. “That’s why the audit has to be done and looked at as a plan for us to build on.”
Nonetheless, seeing a plan of action from the Fire Department is a welcome change, said Councilman Mark F. Craig, I-4th Ward.
“It’s good that the Fire Department is finally reacting to the criticism of the administration that they have not offered any changes,” Craig said. “It shows that they are willing to participate in the process to save the city money in their department This shows there is leadership and a command structure within the Fire Department, and they are willing to step up to the challenge.”
As for the changes, Craig said further review is needed.
Such a review should include more analysis of comparable departments, said Councilman Larry Tanner, D-1st Ward.
“I think it’s time we hear what other fire departments are doing,” Tanner said. “It might help us to determine if our guys are doing more than normal.”
Council will likely weigh in heavily on at least one other proposal of the department.
The fire prevention bureau has begun drafting legislation that will call for all new residential homes built in Elyria to be constructed with an automatic sprinkler system.
Such legislation will likely be met with apprehension, but, if approved, will help provide an additional level of fire protection, Dempsey said.
“Our primary mission is to protect people and property from the ravages of fire, and in order to do so we will continue to push for four fire districts,” he said. “We’ve been set up to fail. We’ve had our resources cut, but we’re still expected to keep doing it all.”
Developer Lorne Elbert said he’s tired of laws that save cities money at the expense of builders.
“If they don’t want to build any more houses in Elyria, then fine,” he said after learning about Dempsey’s letter.
Elbert said he couldn’t say how much it would cost to install automatic sprinklers without having more details.
Grace said approval of such a measure wouldn’t happen.
Jason Hawk and Stephen Szucs contributed to this report.
Contact Lisa Roberson at 329-7121 or lroberson@chroniclet.com.
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I have a few idea’s on how to solve this….one, is why doesnt Mayor Grace, who seams to know everything about fire fighting, spend a month as a fire fighter…after all what is he basing his decisions on? money? if thats the case, than my second idea is, why not make cuts in city departments that dont directly effect public safety….like parks and recreation or better yet, our under used road repair department? It doesnt make sense to close on of the newer fire stations just because the Mayor thinks it will save money….why not under man his staff? the city of Elyria is not a board game in which Mayor Grace can make any move he desires, to me it shows a gross lack of respect for the Elyria fire department and for the safety of us citizens.
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Why can’t the Fire Dept work an 8 Hour shift like everyone else?
What exactly are the firefighters doing when there at the fire station waiting on a call?
I don’t understand why this dept is paid Hundreds of thousands of dollars every year in overtime.
I doubt anyone would have a problem having 20 firemen on duty around the clock, if they could do it with out enormous amounts of over time. The people of Elyria can’t be help hostage by the city or fire dept because the firemen are upset because they are not getting tons of overtime hours. Then work a second FULL TIME job else where because of there fire dept work schedule. Let them work an 8 hour shift like every other working man. In today’s times can we really afford to pay a fire fighter to be at the station sleeping? Would it not make more sense to have 8 hour shifts and have a fresh man on duty every 8 hours? Don’t get me wrong, I strongly believe in a strong fire dept, but I think there are better ways to do it than what is being done now.
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hmmm… You call 911, longer time to responde, less people survive, less taxes to collect, translates into….fewer 911 calls, longer time to respond, fewer people survive, less taxes to collect.people move away, busisness close…… Definitely a good way to kill a town, and to keep people and busisness’s from moving in.
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No, Lorne, we *don’t* need yet more new houses in Elyria. We can’t even sell the ones we already have! Perfectly good houses are selling for bargain prices, and not just because of the nationwide housing market downturn. Elyria is shrinking; people are leaving for different reasons, one of the largest being the lack of good full-time jobs. And much of Elyria doesn’t have good quick access to the interstates, so it doesn’t even work as a bedroom community. Lorne Elbert needs to stop acting like the city/township/county needs to bow to his every whim just because he chopped down some trees and named the streets after them.
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IF you think about it as the old saying goes, there are too many Chiefs and not enough Indians so to speak within Mayor Grace’s administration giving him advice on the Fire Department issue that has no clue or training on firefighting experience.
One doesn’t have to be a Firefighter to see how out of focus this is getting. The only thing I see is Mayor Grace and company passing the buck and the blame on Chief Zielinski as well as the Firefighters themselves meaning they were ask to come up with a plan and as you read above they did and where did it get them but more criticism.
Folks correct me if I am wrong, but it seems if any commonsense solution of a problem is thrown out the window as it seems has in the case the cuts of Firefighters and the closing of Station #2 then the problem will never be solved.
Even Lorne Elbert gave his two cents about the plan and as you can see who only cares about his bottom line and in fact is the Contractor who wants to develop more homes within the soon to be City limits of Elyria that was part of Carlisle Township.
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Just when you think you’ve hit bottom, once again something comes out of Elyria and the fire department that tops that! Just how LAZY can the fire department get?? I cannot believe that they want to go on less calls and ask for raises in the same breath! Just what is our money getting us now? Seems that the firemen are grasping at every excuse to do less work for more money. “We want to sit around and watch more TV, cant do that going on all these medical calls”
They get extra money in thier base salary for being EMT’s, and now they dont want to do the job. Of course, you do know that they still will be paid the same doing less……Why pay someone for a service they are not going to use? And who is this acting chief Dempsey? What, since the chief is out sick, he thinks he can just step in and take command and make a bunch of changes, and not the kind that are good for the citizens. Bring back Chief Zelinski, at least with him, we were getting what we are paying for.
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how about not buiding the new elyria high use the one we got make repairs its got to be cheaer then building a new one,but no our mayor has his priorities messed up he wants to get rid of firefighters but lets keep putting our kids in the best school on the outside make changes on the inside as far as the teachers who have lack of concern how there students are really achieving,my boyfriend has 2 kids one who dropped out and is now attending another school when he chooses and and another one there both these kids ages 16 and 18 dont even know how to write cursive? but yet lets build a new school and cut the firemen? this is why my kids are attending midview, elyria has there priorities messed up and it isnt getting no better
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She wonders WHY we need a new high-school???? Not only can the kids not write in cursive but SHE can barely spell!!!! EDUCATION starts at home, my dear!!! They say “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree” hmmmmmm
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The work schedule of a fireman consists of two 24-hour days per week, for an average of 8 days per month. With this schedule, 5 days off per week is normal.
Normally every 3 weeks, an extra day off is given.
Because of the many days off during a month, many maintain a second job to supplement their income. They easily can make as much money on their day off as they do on the job. These second careers consist of salesmen, ambulance drivers, accountants, laborers, landscapers, real estate brokers, appraisers, contractors, attorneys – you name it, a firefighter does it on their day off.
The above info was found here http://www.firemanemtparamedic.com/how_to_become_a_fireman.html
Hell I would be happy with this arrangement and all they want to do is complain and want more more more .
I would really like to see the Pay Scale and break down of wages and hours worked for the Elyria Fire Dept Including the overtime hours. They work 2 days a week and at that they even get 8 hours over time pay.
I don’t know that this is there work schedule but the question has been asked several times before in other articles about the Fire Dept and it never gets a answer , neither does the question Why cant they work a regular 8 Hour shift like everyone else ………
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In reading the article again I don’t know about you folks but Mr. De la ports comments in the article doesn’t give me any warm and fuzzy feelings about his company. Meaning it’s an Ambulance Company and one of the first responders to save lives and medical care out in the field so to speak not just a ride to the Hospital.
As we all know his company is the only Ambulance Company we have in this city. To the point if his company can’t spend some of money that he has made off of the citizens of this city and insurance companies by opining a new station or two in busy areas to give better service and cut down their response time to save a life, maybe its time someone contact other Ambulance Companies to see if they would like to open shop so to speak in Elyria.
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There are better ways of trimming the fat, so to speak. The “acting†chief has a valid point in the sense that limiting responses will save dollars. It will cut down on fuel consumption and save wear and tear on the apparatus. However, every firefighter has sworn to save life and property. This goes against everything a firefighter stands for. Also, it looks bad if firefighters are stretched out on their Lay-Z-Boys while the elderly neighbor down the street can’t catch his breath. The services in Elyria could vastly improve if the mayor would make the fire department take over all EMS responses and transports. This is a win-win situation for everyone. If the City of Elyria would put an ambulance in every fire station, the response times for EMS calls would be greatly improved, it even says so in the Chronicle’s article. That’s why the fire department typically beats the ambulance to the scene. Also, this would save money for all of the taxpayers in Elyria. With the fire department handling all EMS responses, the residents would no longer need to pay Lifecare for a transport to the hospital. The patient’s insurance could be “soft-billed†for the cost of the transport. The patient would never see a bill. If the patient doesn’t have insurance then it’s a free ride. The other benefit is that the money collected from the insurance companies would go to fire department needs such as additional manpower or equipment. This would, in fact, justify more manpower for the fire department and give the residents of Elyria “more bang for their buck.†Everyone wins. The City of Elyria gets faster response times and an influx of money that they could never claim before. The fire department gets to open up station 2 again and staff every fire station with additional manpower. The residents of Elyria get better public service and less money coming out of their pockets. The Mayor and the fire chief look like heroes. Who loses????
I agree that other ideas need to happen. Does the mayor need all of those assistants? Can some expenses be reduced elsewhere? Sure… the fire department isn’t the only bad guy here. With the loss of so many businesses here and the lack of the current administration to get more prospective businesses here, we need to look at all outgoing money. It’s time for everyone to tighten the belt a little.
Lastly, The “acting†chief needs to learn to get along with his boss, his peers, the public and his subordinates or else he wont be “acting†anything for long.
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The fire dept cant provide Advanced Life Support as Life Care can, If you ever listened to a scanner and listen to lifecare , even with all there trucks they are sometimes short , 4 or 5 ambulances stationed at the fire stations on allot of occasions would not be enough. paying the fire dept from insurance or other source would be paying twice for the same service since the fire dept is paid by our taxes Then the next problem is that when folks who cant afford to pay find out it is a FREE RIDE it will become like the Cleveland Ambulance service where people call a ambulance to be taken to the hospital for a cold , and the many other non life threatening things Cleveland has to transport for , when that happens the fire dept would need a fleet of 20 or more ambulances .
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This is a tough one. Elyria is in bad shape, so is Lorain. The truth is, working people are leaving, businesses are leaving, and the ones left behind are a lot of crooks and welfarees.
What is not clear is why, the bigger body, Lorain County, does not help??? Lorain County has got the same issues, but on a smaller scale. As the responsible body, the county commissioners have the ability to pull funds from wasteful areas (ie. lorain county sheriffs department), and put those funds to good use, in Elyria and Lorain.
There’s something funny going on between the current county commissioners and the county sheriff’s department. Continuous waste of money in the sheriff’s department, while at the same time our biggest cities are sliding down the tube.
You city governments should take this to the commissioners. A close review of the sheriffs departments accrual and expense sheets will reveal a lot of unnecessary spending $$$$$.
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this is a reply to haylow,i can spell,but funny,i typed the letters cant help it didnt show up when i hit it but i assure you i do know how to spell,but elyria doesnt need a new school it has worked fine for so many years now but i do hope when you ever need help the firemen are quick at getting to your house and not slow on account of the lack of firemen but give a good school?also i didnt raise these kids ,i came into their lives when they were 11 and 13 but i have to agree with you the apple dont far from the tree since their parents are both elyria high grads who both was in the learning disability program!!!! i myself attended midview and our teachers were concerned about our education and we sure didnt have the police walking our halls because of crime.
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Haxor, I can assure you that the Elyria Fire Department can provide ALS service, just the same as Lifecare does… I know a lot of the guys that work there. The only difference is, they cannot transport without an ambulance. Also, being a part of an emergency service in Lorain County, I can also inform you that 4 ambulances in the City of Elyria would be sufficient. Lifecare puts only 3 in service in Elyria at a time. If more are needed then they call for help from other agencies.
As for the soft-billing issue, I was simply stating that if the fire department gained funds from another source, such as insurance companies, It would ease the burden on our pockets. More money from the insurance companies, less from us… understand? It wasn’t about paying them more. If you call for an ambulance now, what do you get billed for it??? probably close to $800 for an ALS run. With soft-billing, you wouldn’t get a bill. It would be considered payment in full… because you pay the taxes.
If this system was in place now, the new ladder truck that the city is paying over one million dollars for wouldn’t be completely coming out of our pockets. I don’t know about you, but I’m all for saving money. As far as the free services, the problem that the City of Cleveland has is because of the system they have in place… not because it’s free. Abuse of the system can be curbed if it’s done correctly. Lastly, you should listen to that scanner a little closer… the 911 abuse already goes on here. I’ve already transported a patient for pink eye.
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