Lorain/Elyria, OH
Contract impasse riles Elyria teachers
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ELYRIA — An Elyria school board meeting Wednesday night turned into a referendum on the current impasse between the district and the teachers union over contract negotiations.
The room was packed as teachers wanted to make a strong showing to demonstrate that they are determined to fight for the contract they want.
Their current contract expired Aug. 31, and negotiations have been contentious.
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Mark Jessie, choir director at Elyria High School, tried to smooth things over.
“We need to back up and see where we’re headed,” he said. “Past negotiations worked well because there was trust and good faith.”
He also said “outside influences” are pushing a confrontational stance in negotiations, and he resents it.
“Why is this on the front page of The Chronicle?” he asked. “Our dirty laundry should stay in-house.”
There was no tone of conciliation in the speech that followed by Elyria Education Association leader Sarida Volante.
Contract negotiations, she said, have demonstrated that teachers are “less important than classified staff” to the board. She wondered why teachers should accept less of a raise than administration and classified staff and increased health coverage costs.
She accused the district of regressive bargaining and vindictiveness.
She also said it was unfair to paint the teachers union as selfish in negotiations.
“We worked to pass Issue 29 with overwhelming support,” she said. “Teachers pay for supplies out of their own pockets. Teachers take graduate courses instead of vacations.”
Teachers, she said, have shown that they are willing to sacrifice for the schools, citing five years ago when they agreed to a pay freeze in return for not altering benefits.
Her speech was met with loud applause from those in attendance.
School Board President Donald Boddy said he was “distressed” by the language in statements from the union.
“We live in a community and county where police and firefighters are being laid off,” he said. “In private businesses, employees are taking less pay to save their fellow employees from being laid off. We cannot generate new money. We need to work together.”
The district’s financial future looks grim, according to a report from treasurer Fred Stevens.
With flat local revenue, falling real estate values and revenue from the state expected to increase just 1.5 percent per year through 2014, the school district is projected to be running a $3.9 million deficit in 2012, a $13 million deficit in 2013 and a $29 million deficit in 2014.
Keeping costs under control, he said after the meeting, is why the community trusts the school district and has passed two levy renewals.
This situation, he said, is new territory.
“For decades, we had non-contentious, early settlements,” he said. “This is disconcerting.”
Contact Melissa Hebert at 329-7129 or mhebert@chroniclet.com.
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Vouchers will solve all the problems with the teachers union and the school administration . Give the power back to the parents.
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For years the teachers union and EFD union have held the city hostage…
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yeah and the teachers spend more time with ya’lls kids than most of you do, they deserve to be paid for having to try to teach the kids, support the kids, disapline the kids, and dodge parents trying to sue for dum stuff.
the ones id be mad at in elyria is the education bored; if they are like sheffield they give themselfs raises and dont want to give any to the teachers.
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And here we go again with the teachers dictating through their idiot unions to the tax payer who pays their inflated incomes. The school board should NOT bend one inch to these demands!
Most Elyrians are losing their jobs or barely making it in this economy and employed teachers with their cupcake hours, first rate benefits and ability to do whatever they want, whenever they want without being fired thanks to the unions, want to pull this crap?! FORGET IT! There are PLENTY of unemployed teachers and graduates who would be happy to take their positions with less pay to become an employed American!
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Nice attitude bBounce!
Nothing else to say except you spelled all your words right, so some teacher with “cupcake hours, first rate benefits and the ability to do what they want” did their job correctly!!!!!!
Please!
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Glad Mark Jessie was a cool head that evening. He does a heck of a job with the choir department over there.
As for teachers, benefits - I know I sound like a broken record but unions have to start realizing that regular people have had huge cuts in benefits, larger percentage of our pay goes to our benefits - and that unions have to start teaching their members that this is the world we now live in.
Good friend of mine is a teacher. She was bitching to me that she only has gotten 3% increases in pay over the past 2 years and NOW they want her to pay $100 a pay for her family medical coverage, up from $30 a pay. I asked her what her copay and deductible was - $10 copay with NO deductible. I almost fell over. I pay more than double what she does and I have just a high deductible plan. Plus pay CUTS instead of raises…
We need good teachers to build a good community but I think that our taxes can no longer afford the gravy benefits of the unions.
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John:
Yes my teachers did do a great job. Oh, by the way, a large majority of them were not compensated monitarily for their jobs, and those who received a “salary” (if you can even call it that) made 1/3 of what the PUBLIC school teacher earned.
Funny how works isn’t it John.
Further, MY tax dollars pay their wages and benefits John. My family’s income has decreased over the past 3 years as have our benefits. Inflation is very real and the average tax payer is hardly reaping the benefit of a “cost of living” increase. It’s CUTS across the board for most of us! Our properties are taxed at an average rate of 10-20% over market value, well that is for those of us who are fortunate enough to still have a home that owns us!
So spare me the critical dung John. I call it as I see it and I’m personally sick to death of the whining and crying coming from the typical union worker. We’re all suffering, so cry me a river already.
Most GOOD teachers understand the econimical situation and the burden it has placed on the families in their communities. I haven’t heard as much as a whimper from them and like US, they’re sacrificing until things pick up. They also realize this isn’t going to be a short term thing for ANYONE. The union gripers are the ones who are burnt out and probably should have found a new line of work long ago on their own, because God knows they’ll see a pink slip.
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…NEVER see a pink slip.
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Sorry Bounce, my father was a public school teacher for 30 years! Had to work a second job and teach summer school most of his career! Spare me your belittling of the PUBLIC profession! Oh and yes he was in a union . . .
Sorry CB but I have to disagree with you on this one! Our teachers have become our societies baby-sitters and should get paid more! As stated above, they spend more time with OUR (meaning mine) children than we do! They should make an above average wage!
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As a side note Bounce! I have taken a reduction in pay and benefits this year as have most! So spare me your critical dung sir!
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Teachers are underpaid, and unappreciated. They have a very difficult job and most of the teachers I know do have to work two jobs to make ends meet.
They also have to deal with the thugs and punks who are allowed to get away with more and more and could care less about learning and being disruptive to the other classmates that are there to learn.
Administrative personnel should not be getting better raises and benefits then the teachers.
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The 40hr work week and the 8hr day were both union ideas. I supose the anti-union folk are willing to go back to the 12-16 hr day 6-7 days a week for the same pay?
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C’mon Booboo,
You know greedy corporations don’t exist anymore.
Seriously. teacher’s benefits are a sweet deal (now) & getting too expensive for our economy.
Don’t get me started on some that should be fired but are protected by the Union.
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Delyrian:
That’s my point exactly. Good teachers are worth their weight in gold and then some and the communities know who they are. The point is that the bad ones (everyone knows who they are as well) will never see the Exit door when they need a big farewell. Our districts are collectively flooded with dead weight thanks to the almighty teachers union. The taxpayer, who all but signs the paychecks, has zero input on who stays and who goes.
Surprise John. My children attend the public school system, and I can tell you one thing. They’ve had some fantastic teachers who have made huge differences in their lives, in many lives. I would love to see them receive an increase every year BASED ON PERFORMANCE, as would most of the community. We all know the good teachers out there! It’s truly a shame that they’ve also had enough who were so horrible, lazy, mean and useless that it’s almost undone the inspiration and knowledge that the true teacher has gifted to them. On a similar note, I’ve even experienced 1 administrator that everyone knows is deadweight and the door hasn’t hit him in the rear either (and he’s not union), but he sure shields his bad teachers.
I respect the job of the teacher, but I have NO respect for their unions. Jobs for most of us are held, kept and rewarded based on INDIVIDUAL performance, not years on the job, seniority, higher education, ethnic background, etc.
Oh Boo, don’t worry about the teacher working too many hours in a year without the unions. Those govt. holidays, breaks and summers are quite a nice perk.
The teachers I know who are great at their jobs don’t worry about ousting the union because they would be rewareded on a job well done!
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Here’s the Elyria School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL 1,132.40
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL 1,885.51
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL 5,522.57
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL 1,094.68
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL 347.48
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL 9,982.64
Here’s the Amherst School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL 827.37
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL 1,602.56
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL 5,004.27
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL 693.92
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL 199.09
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL 8,327.21
EdChoice Payment to attend a private school:
Elementary $4,250.00
High School $5,000.00
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Here are some more comparisons…
Midview School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL $1,037.97
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL $1,539.99
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL $3,909.74
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL $762.21
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL $17.69
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL $7,267.60
North Ridgeville School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL $833.45
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL $1,577.19
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL $5,015.71
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL $729.50
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL $503.69
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL $8,659.54
Lorain School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL $1,290.65
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL $1,984.65
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL $5,318.36
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL $963.04
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL $291.55
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL $9,848.25
Avon School Costs for 2008:
E - EXPENDITURE PER PUPIL DATA:
41) ADMINISTRATION PER PUPIL $893.73
42) BUILDING OPERATION PER PUPIL $1,646.07
43) INSTRUCTIONAL PER PUPIL $4,465.95
44) PUPIL SUPPORT PER PUPIL $715.17
45) STAFF SUPPORT PER PUPIL $252.52
46) TOTAL PER PUPIL $7,973.44
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thats funny, ya know why lorian and elyria costs are so muich higher? becuz there the schools that need security all the time. i know that most unions get there poeple good benifits; but sometimes ya gotta remember what the poeple in those unions do. in this case; id rather see a teacher get paid more than a steel worker becuase of the crap they have to put up with. they have to pay for there continued learning, they have to deal with unruly kids and there unruly parents, they have to deal with boreds that give themselfs raises then ask the public for more money. i do think that benifits needs to be downgraded some to be more like what tax payers are now getting. but, im not going to insult teachers becuase what they do is more importent to our future than poeple know. they are helping our future grow ; i mean our kids. although i think no child left behind thing needs redone; it just makes teachers have to teach kids how to pass the test and doesnt give them much time for getting into the cool stuff about learning. by cool stuff, i mean like mock things that give kids a hand-on idea of how things work. like a mock trial or debate or somethign like that. more kids would stay in school if there was more time for learning that puts kids INTO the subject insted of just rattling off dates and definitions.
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@ ForThePeople,
I’m not sure where you are going with your posting of Per Pupil costs as a comparison to Private Schooling, BUT…
I’m glad you posted those figures. Anyone viewing them needs to realize a few additional TRUTHS about those numbers.
1) Compare the private school costs to public costs with RATIO of Teacher to Student. I don’t have any numbers, but I can promise you there are more students in a public classroom than a private classroom.
2) Let’s suppose EVERYONE decides private school IS cheaper, they send ALL their students to those schools. Do you think those private schools can HOLD that many students? No. They would need to builder larger buildings, thus raising the private school cost.
3) Do you think a private school WANTS “just anyone” in their classrooms? No. The reason public schools exist is because they are VERY non-discriminatory towards the type of student they accept. (there are obvious exceptions, but private schools will not take the extreme student either)
4) The average salary of a private school teacher is HIGHER than that of a public school teacher. This salary is fully loaded, meaning, including all benefits.
5) There is greater transparency in what is taught, said, done, rumored, etc. in a PUBLIC school than a private school simply because they are using public dollars, thus enabling all citizens the ability to even scrutinize. (so feel great that you can even gripe about public school- if it were private, you may never even know about a pedophile teacher)
So to sum:
Education is vital for our children. We all agree to that point. In a perfect world, education might become a public good such is our National Defense. Until then, we have to do our best to make it run. We are getting our public schooling DIRT CHEAP! If we invested a little more into that resource, we might even get some educated children out of it that wouldn’t waste their time posting ignorant commentary on a silly local newspaper blog.
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Dan w:
Your truths…
1) There may be larger classrooms in public, but that questions even more why the cost per student is so much higher in public vs private.
2) Never said everybody should be in Private schools. Just comparing the costs.
3) Your right.
4) Not even close. Name one private school in Elyria that pays their teachers more than public school teachers, benefits included or excluded. There aren’t any.
5) Right, pedophile teachers are only outed in public schools. I believe a St. Joseph teacher was arrested this week…and it was in the news. This type of comment falls into the category of your final statement…”posting ignorant commentary on a silly local newspaper blog”.
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Lake ridge costs 25,000 for your kid to go there.
Magnificat is about 10,000
I think EC is about 8 or 9,000 now - might be high on that one -please correct me if you know.
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If everyone attended a private school, I’d think there would be more private schools opening. Supply and demand, I’m sure there would even be some for profit schools that open that would teach the kids just fine.
A friend made the comment to me the other day about the average cost per student in public schools. He said the average cost per student is a lot lower than the widely quoted numbers and that our per student costs are more in line with other countries educational costs. What tends to skew the numbers is the spending on special needs students. Elyria and I think Lorain each have a special needs program which take special needs kids from other districts as well. That can be part of the reason for the higher costs in Elyria and Lorain vs. the other districts.
The ratio of teachers to special need kids is a lot higher, plus additional aids and helpers. Plus the special equipment, educational tools, and class setup all cost more for them then other students. If all these costs are thrown into the total cost then it’s reasonable that per cost will be higher. Some states even have stipulations that say if your school district can’t meet your child special needs that have to cover the cost of sending the kid to a private school. I read an article about this happening in New York. Many special needs kids are attending a private school that cost the school district over $50,000 a year per student.
I’d like to see the cost ratios after excluding the special need costs to see what the true are costs per student. Especially when comparing our student costs with other countries since most don’t include their special needs cost with education.
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EC tuition for 2009/10 was $6,500 (before fundraising requirements)
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The percent of disabled students in Elyria SD is 14.5%, the average for the county is 12.3%.
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The Pupil Teacher ratio for Elyria is 16.6, the average for the county is 20.0.
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The Pupil Administrator ratio for Elyria is 138.4, the average for the county is 159.7.
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The average Expenditure per Pupil for Elyria is $9,982.64, the average for the county is $8,981.35.
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Well at least “For The People” has all the random facts, but there is one thing that data and facts cannot show…the importance of a good education and teachers that are happy. A lot of my friends are finishing up college right now to be teachers and it amazes me how many hoops they have to jump through to make what $32,000 a year? They don’t only work 40 hours a week, almost every teacher will put in about 65-70 hours of week of school work, but only get paid for 40. Teachers don’t get paid to take their papers home and grade them, they dont get paid to spend their weekends creating lesson plans and projects for the students so you know what I say…give them what they want. They work harder than half of you lazy asses on this site and they deserve to be compensated for it. ESPECIALLY in Lorain and Elyria when you have parents that just flat out could care less about their child’s education. And all of you people think that they are the typical Union worker you have another thing coming. Most of the people in the UAW sit around on their ass all day…don’t do anything, or take two hour lunches and then go home early (but still stay clocked in)…that is one reason why American cars have gone to shit, they don’t care about the quality of the work they are putting out, they care about “stickin it to the man”. Well teachers (most of them anyways) do care about the quality of work they put out because the biggest reward for them is to see a child learn and grow right before their eyes. So I say to all of you that doubt how much a teacher actually does, why don’t you sit down with one and ask them what their weekly agenda is. They don’t get to walk in the door at home at 5pm and forget about work until the next day.
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pupil ratio is 16.6 in elyria? my nephuw is in 4th grade in elyria; he says theres over 20 kids in all of his classes and one has about 23 kids in it.how is this 16.6 figured?
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Not sure how the pupil ratio is calculated. All the data that I was able to obtain (and much more) is on the Ohio Department of Education website.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDefaultPage.aspx?page=1
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Judging from the posts by those opposing the teachers it appears some of you had teachers who were underpaid. You don’t want your kids to suffer the same lowered horizons you got because you failed to learn, do you? You do want the best, motivated teachers shaping your kids’ minds, don’t you?
If you don’t, then go ahead and invest in that big screen TV after you’ve finished your chips and beer and after the big game’s over.
But if you still have some concern about our future, and where your kids will fit in an uncertain world, then you’d better see to it they aren’t short-changed like some of you were.
We are all rewarded in life based on our intelligence, regardless of attempts by our government and society to penalize achievers and equalize life’s outcomes. You want your kids to be leaders and achievers, not grass-eating sheep and drones led around by other kids who had the benefit of good schools and good teachers.
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