August 1, 2014

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Loaded magazine left behind during gun legalization gathering in Oberlin park

OBERLIN – A loaded gun magazine was almost left behind at Park Street Park during a gathering Saturday organized by gun activists to highlight the safety of legal gun ownership.

City Councilman Bryan Burgess said the incident is just one reason why he doesn’t support legalizing guns in the city’s parks.

From left, David Sonner, of Oberlin; Michael Holubar, of Wakeman; Fred Tegtmeyer, of Ashland; Jeff Phillips and Chase, 8, of Oberlin; Nick Mascari, of Wellington; and Brian Kuzawa, of Ashland, debate whether guns should be allowed in public at Park Street Park in Oberlin, which does not allow firearms. KRISTIN BAUER/CHRONICLE

From left, David Sonner, of Oberlin; Michael Holubar, of Wakeman; Fred Tegtmeyer, of Ashland; Jeff Phillips and Chase, 8, of Oberlin; Nick Mascari, of Wellington; and Brian Kuzawa, of Ashland, debate whether guns should be allowed in public at Park Street Park in Oberlin, which does not allow firearms. KRISTIN BAUER/CHRONICLE

Currently, Oberlin’s ordinance bans firearms from the city’s parks, although state law allows it and it therefore isn’t enforced.

The city was asked to change its law to match state law at the urging of Brian Kuzawa, an Ashland resident who organized Saturday’s gathering. Kuzawa said the gathering was not meant to ruffle City Council’s feathers, although he has actively spoken out against City Council during meetings about the legislation.

It was Kuzawa’s wife who left the loaded gun magazine on a picnic table, according to Burgess, who said he and the Rev. David Hill were one of the last people in the park that day.

“I called (Kuzawa) and pointed it out to him, and said that’s why we didn’t want guns in the park, because accidents can happen,” he said.

Burgess said Kuzawa apologized for leaving the item behind, and took it with him before leaving.

Kuzawa said the incident was a “mistake,” but one that he and his wife have rectified with equipment to hold the magazine in the future. Still, he said Burgess’s argument is an overreaction.

“A magazine really doesn’t do anything without a gun to put it in,” he said.

Burgess, however, said leaving behind a gun magazine is serious enough to warrant a misdemeanor charge.

But Oberlin Police Sgt. Patrick Durica said the charge Burgess was referring to – failure to secure dangerous ordnance – would not apply to a loaded magazine. He said he is not aware of any charges that could be filed for leaving a magazine unattended.

A proposal for a new ordinance on firearms is slated for a third reading during City Council’s meeting Monday. City Council has passed the revisions to the ordinance to match state law during two separate readings, but Council members have continued to discus ways to ban guns despite the state law.

Burgess said among ideas that are being discussed are to lease the city’s parks. For example, the city already leases a portion of Legion Field Park to Zion Community Development Corp., which manages a community garden there.

Contact Chelsea Miller at 329-7123 or cmiller@chroniclet.com.

  • Mitch Witherell

    these fruit boots need to get a life. Yea I’ll bet their idea is to call 911 and they’ll save the day! Oh in the meantime the bad guys will be running wild, beating, or torturing someone but let me guess, in their minds that’ ok? Not with my family and not me. It was said recently, your cowards, grow a set! we have to protect our family today the police can’t be there all the time, it’s just not today’s reality!

    • TopCat_Texas

      You are absolutly correct, police can not be there to protect you. Also, police have no duty or responsibility to protect you. Protecting your safety is solely your responsibility and you should have the RIGHT to choose the tools that you need to do that.

      • Zen Grouch

        “…and you should have the RIGHT to choose the tools that you need to do that.”

        No matter how Bat **** Crazy you may be!

        Background checks is for SISSIES!

        • BriKuz

          Apparently, proper grammar is for sissies.

          • Zen Grouch

            Well… School marms ARE kind a’ prissy…

          • BriKuz

            You and I haven’t met the same “school marms”… a LOT of them I know are ladies in the classroom and… er, let us say “less inhibited” when out on the town ;-)

          • Zen Grouch

            *ZING!*

            -What was that?-

            Never mind…

  • Mike wowk

    I agree its being blown up for drama, but WHY was a spare magazine ever even pulled out in the first place? C’mon people really? If your going to go and protest and prove that gun owners are responsible….Dont leave live ammo behind.

    • Jeff Garvas

      Its common to carry spare magazines and this one was not “pulled out”.

      In this case a spare magazine managed to fall out of where it was being carried when someone sat down and instead of pointing it out when it happened and was witnessed like a normal person would do it was turned into a headline spectacle by tipping off the media. When your whole opposition argument is based on emotional rhetoric you need to spin these kind of stories out of proportion to wag the dog.

      • Mike wowk

        Then it should have been carried in a way that it doesnt fall out. My pistol and magazines dont fall out because I use a proper holster and or spare mag carrier. This shouldn’t be a story because it shouldnt have happened.

        • BriKuz

          You are 100% correct, and the suggestion you made has already been implemented… (The handgun was ALWAYS in a retention holster)

          Lesson: Tight pants with not deep enough pockets + sitting, feeding a baby + magazine = mag sitting on the park bench seat.

          ANY pants +sitting, feeding baby + mag in mag holder = no issues

          • Mike wowk

            Cool, lesson learned.

      • Mark

        good thing it was the “spare” and not the actual weapon falling to the ground, eh?

  • Bob Owens

    Hmm. Responsible gun owners.

    • Victor Mackey

      Hmmm, unarmed person…

    • Pete

      Bob, you should have ended that sentence with a question mark so we all could have answered it with “no”.

  • Russell C

    When there is a gathering of ignorant yahoos, mistakes are bound to be made. I loved the photo on the front page of the Plain Dealer of the mom with a baby on her hip and a gun holstered on the other. People like that should be born without reproductive organs. They’ll be in the news again down the road and they won’t be smiling.

    • Victor Mackey

      Maybe one day you will have enough courage to state that in public.

      • Russell C

        Already did at McDonald’s this morning.

        • MSG L

          Were you working there?

          • Russell C

            Not sure why it’s relevant, but no, I was drinking coffee. Do you consider yourself to be superior to those people who work at McDonald’s? You should give it a try, get out of your pajamas and get off of the welfare and food stamps.

    • MSG L

      So, the People who exercise their rights as outlined in the Constitution, People who are following the law, legally Armed Citizens, are “ignorant yahoos”? What are YOU afraid of?

      • Russell C

        The gun toting morons at the park in Oberlin and especially the irresponsible idiot who is a gun owner but can’t even keep track of a gun magazine, yes, they are IGNORANT YAHOOS.

      • Russell C

        Also, to answer your question about who I am afraid of;I’m afraid of stupid people with guns.

  • Smira29595

    Just like there are mistakes made in the 1st amendment
    there are in the 2nd. 1: Magazine and clip are not interchangeable. 2 A
    week goes by before sensationalizing this story. Leaving behind a loaded
    MAGAZINE is not a good idea. But if you are going to report on Firearms
    know the terminology.

  • Phil Blank

    There is no story here, the headline is a lie!

    ” was almost left behind at Park Street Park”

  • http://www.morningjournal.com/opinion Tom Skoch

    1. The headline is misleading. 2. The police said the councilman is wrong about a misdemeanor charge being applicable. 3. Nothing was left in the park. 4. Nobody was hurt, or could have been hurt. Then what’s the story? The story is that Oberlin’s ordinance itself is at odds with state law, yet the city has to be dragged into complying with Ohio law and still the councilman is looking for new ways to circumvent the state law. The article casts the situation backward. This isn’t about legalizing guns being carried by concealed carry permit holders in parks, they are legal; it’s about making Oberlin recognize that fact and conform to state law. The headline for the real story here is “Oberlin official hopes to dodge state law that allows families to defend themselves against thugs in parks.”

    • Zen Grouch

      **”Then what’s the story?”**

      …seemed clear enough to me.

      **”…it’s about making Oberlin recognize that fact and conform to state law.”**

      Which “state law” is it Oberlin is not conforming to?

      …and is there a difference in not “conforming” to a law and breaking that law?

      So… if Oberlin is breaking state laws, shouldn’t that be easy enough to sort out in court?

      …I mean, other than the court of public opinion.

    • B4CE

      How bad is the new MJ site that even Tom would rather read and comment on the Chronicle page? Too funny!
      If these are the “responsible” gun owners leaving their weapon parts laying around, what’s that say about the “unresponsible ” ones?
      And Mitch, how is one to protect ones self when your bullets are laying over there on the picnic table? Talk about fruity!

      • Zen Grouch

        Maybe they draw a line in the sand on which munitions they can be careless and irresponsible with…

        …makes sense using a perverse kind of logic.

        • Conservator440

          You mean, like Syria?

          • Zen Grouch

            Ohhh right…

            I forgot.

            EVERYTHING relates to Obama somehow.

          • Conservator440

            If the shoe fits ….take off your house shoes and put on your marchin shoes…………..

          • Zen Grouch

            I’ll take off my house shoes…

            …if YOU take off your tin foil hat.

      • TopCat_Texas

        A clip is merely a strip of metal that will keep the bullets in a straight row like a paper clip keeps paper in a straight row. So, a clip is small and would be danger to no one, Clips are usually seen on older vintage rifles and not used on handguns. The ammo that many have been with the clip should not have been left, but the story reports that it was not left. So, what is the purpose of this article? (magazine is the correct term for what was potentially left)

        • Smira29595

          Although a broom handled Mauser (9mm or 45 ) use a stripper clip.

          • TopCat_Texas

            Thanks for the info. I figured that their may be an exception somewhere. Of course, I would expect that a broom handled Mauser would not be uese in very many violent crimes today. But good to know. Do you own one?

          • Smira29595

            Yes was the first weapon Hubby ever got me. pre WW1, But is accurate as **** and fun to fire.

          • TopCat_Texas

            Great! The best to you and your “hubby”

    • Smira29595

      5 Why wait a week to publish the story. 6 Clip & Magazine are not interchangeable. 7 Learn the terminology if you are going to report it.

    • Conservator440

      Tom–it’s Oberlin, the San Fran of the East Coast. ‘Nuf Said. If we begin to separate reason from emotion, perhaps we can get somewhere. The problem is that emotion rules the day and reason shakes her head in disbelief.

  • Victor Mackey

    Chelsea Miller You are such a liberal biased reporter, how did you even get this published? I really hope you are not making crap up just for headlines.

    • Zen Grouch

      I’m kind a hopin’ she’s doing it just to tick off the likes of you, and for no other reason at all!

      • Victor Mackey

        News is the events and how they happened, propaganda is the events how they want us to see them. I am not upset at all, saddened maybe that brainwashed fools like you are still around, we need another plague.
        Nice picture by the way, do you do photo sessions, I would like to have my photo taken with that potato you have.

        • Zen Grouch

          ** I am not upset at all, saddened maybe that brainwashed fools like you are still around, we need another plague.**

          This seems to be a recurring wish/theme among the bible tumping, right wingers who can’t wait for Jebus to come on down and smite the godless liberals because the preacher man and Rush told ‘em they’re the enemy.

          Hmmm…. WWJD?

          …have a nice Rapture! :)

  • drew

    EVERYBODY PANIC!! Holy cow! there must have been bodies everywhere and blood flowing through the streets! Where is the Media reporting on this massacre that assuredly transpired!??? Its a box with bullets in it! These things will kill us all!

    • Zen Grouch

      “EVERYBODY PANIC!! Holy cow! there must have been bodies everywhere and blood flowing through the streets”

      In your dreams maybe…

      …otherwise why would anyone need guns and “extra” magazines in a public park?

      • drew

        Obviously You have never carried. Many carry with a reload, public park, going to get gas, going to walmart, no big deal. We are armed everywhere everyday, the park is inconsequential.

        • Zen Grouch

          “Obviously You have never carried.”

          I use to be a cop in a city with a murder rate that would make your head spin. There were times when I’d personally deal with at least one murder a day for one or two weeks straight.

          Funny thing is, when off duty and carrying, I never felt the need to weigh myself down with extra magazines.

          What was also funny, were these wanna be cops who carried and would pester the heck out of the real cops every chance they’d get… at the pistol range… at the diner… or at the scene of a crime, asking stupid questions such as, which ammo is best for killing another human being.

          These clowns and their police scanners were a constant source of annoyance and amusement at the same time.

          I’m all for the right to carry.

          I’m also for some sort of background check after observing first hand the type of lunatics out there who feel it’s some kind of god given right to swagger with a pistol strapped to their side along with enough magazines to stop an army, mistaking fear and horror for some kind of respect they aren’t getting in the real world without their sign that says, “HEY! Look at me! I can KILL ya’!.”

          These folks, and there are a LOT of ‘em out there who are seriously messed up in the head and trying to fill that hollow spot in their soul with the instant courage a gun supplies.

          But on the bright side, when these folks make mistakes, it’s usually them or their family members who pay the price for their ignorance.

          • Smira29595

            I never questioned cops on a scene. As matter of fact I would avoid it. 2 I am retired combat military veteran. 3 My continued course work in weapons included no less than 40 Hour with Lt Col Dave Grossman. I am married to a retired Nam Vet Army Ranger. I regularly train with Law enforcement & military types. This Saturday I did my first in a serious of Force on Force training. ( Most LE have not even did that). To obtain a CHL in the State of Ohio there is an extensive background check, as there also is to buy a weapon. I may carry but I do it with all seriousness in the hopes I will never have to use it.

          • Zen Grouch

            You made an assumption about me, so…

            4. I didn’t ask you to whip it out and measure it.

          • Smira29595

            I see you are just intimidated by a strong women……….. never mind……..

          • Zen Grouch

            Only when they whip out a tape measure.

          • Smira29595

            My experience show men like you question your own manhood and you have an ego problem my husband would rather Have me stand stand and fight beside him rather than hide behind him.

          • Zen Grouch

            Right… fighting side by side, comrades in arms!

            …but only if you absolutely HAVE to, or course.

            sheesh! it’s getting thick in here.

            But while I still have your attention, maybe you can take a minute and explain exactly why it is that you and your kind are so heck bent against the government doing background checks or issuing some sort of gun purchasing permit?

            My guess is, it’s because there are so many of you out there who would never be able to pass such scrutiny. And criminally insane or not, it’s their god given right to strap on a gun and prance around in the park…

            …and *I’M* the one who questions my manhood?

          • Smira29595

            OK who should be able to carry??? I seriously doubt you were LEO. I went through extensive back ground checks to get a CHL. Among other clearances I have. Who are you to be judge & jury??? And I never said the insane should be able to get weapons. Fix the system DO NOT go after mine. And why I got a carry because a restraining order is just a piece of paper. Especially if the local police & Lorain County judges will not enforce it.

          • Zen Grouch

            You listen as well as you explain things…

            Just forget it.

  • Don Grantzki

    This gun clip that was ALMOST left behind, ALMOST caused many deaths and heart attacks!

    • Conservator440

      In liberal speak, it’s the concept, not the reality that matters.

      • Derp

        Almost got left behind until a Liberal had to educate a NRA gun nut the importance of keeping track of their live ammunition while proclaiming guns are safe.

        Typical Conservative logic.

        • Conservator440

          Much to your chagrin, the ammunition is useless without a weapon to use it in. As you libs well know, guns kill people all by themselves. The gun forces the one holding it to pull a trigger and make it fire……….From what I hear from the left, that is exactly what is believed…………

          • Zen Grouch

            *”From what I hear from the left, that is exactly what is believed…………”*

            “Typical Conservative logic.” …at it’s finest!

          • Derp

            Yeah, even if the ammunition is hit by a lawn mower, Fires, Corrosion its still harmless right?

            Isn’t it weird that a Liberal knows more about gun safety than you?

            Be responsible not hypocrite LOL

          • Conservator440

            Safety is always tantamount. However, there are two issues: First, nothing happened. The clip was never lost, rounds not removed and was safely taken by its owner. The argument is philosophical not actual. Second, the possibility of the clip being run over by a lawnmower has the same probability as either of us being hit by lightning. You really need to see when hyperbole is being used, as I did in my reply.

  • Heath J

    Geeze, Chronicle. If you’re going to post a blatantly misleading article, at least attempt to get the terminology right.

    Why not just say CHILD LEFT BEHIND AT OBERLIN GUN RALLY? It’s about as genuine as what was posted. I saw Kuzawa’s toddler on the swing set, not in the immediate possession of the parent. Obviously she was abandoned.

    • Zen Grouch

      …another blathering opinion from the delirious right wing

      • Conservator440

        Look in a mirror, sir.

        • Zen Grouch

          Yes, I’m sure you find the mirror to be a constant source of delirium…

          • Conservator440

            Only when it is your venerable image in it.

      • Heath J

        Dude, I’m so far removed from “The delirious right”… That’s patently offensive.

        I’ll give you less than eloquent though. I never claimed to be Hemingway.

        • Zen Grouch

          Ever notice how the “delirious right” tend to start discussions with something along the line of:
          “Now I’m not a right wing nut, BUT…”
          or, “Some of my best friends are liberal scum, *BUT…*”
          or, “Yeah, I almost voted for a Democrat once, *BUT…*”
          or, “It’s not that I hate Obama per se, *BUT…*”

          • Heath J

            Not sure how to take that… Random generalizations as a response?

          • Zen Grouch

            Not totally random… but, yeah, kind of…

  • Arietta Sullivan

    well that wasn’t too smart was it..lol

  • TopCat_Texas

    There is quite a difference between “clip” and “magazine”. You would think that someone who writes an article and the proof readers would catch such mistakes. It is like someone “runing their nails over a blackboard” type issue.

    • Zen Grouch

      If I wuz you, I’d cancel my subscription and demand my money bac…

      Oh, right, you’re complaining about a free service making a horrific error, causing you bodily injury, while defending some bozo leaving munitions laying around.

      But don’t worry… as a flower huggin’ liberal, I’ll look into outlawing blackboards and/or fingernails to protect your sensitive ears.

  • Pete

    Stupid people do stupid things, and with this group it probably happens a lot. I like the one comment made that the person who discovered it should have just told the dummy instead of running to the authorities. Here’s your sign.

  • Faux Lies

    Welcome to the real life “Idiocracy”.

    I’m afraid the anti intellectual, flat earth people are out breeding the rest of us.

    • Conservator440

      Keep aborting your young and that will surely happen

      • Mitch Witherell

        Hard to believe this can generate such a heated debate. The word ALMOST is what is crazy. Anything to generate a topic. Nothing happened, NOTHING! Folks made their statement that’s it. Not one single person got hurt, nothing was left and as it was said, it fell out. Things happen and it was found. NO BIG DEAL, until someone wanted it to be. Simply put some person wanted to make a big deal out of this and it should not have been. Anything to make legal gun carrying people look bad in the eyes of those who don’t like it.

        • Zen Grouch

          No big deal ‘eh?

          …and Obama isn’t from KENYA too, I suppose?

          • Mitch Witherell

            how the hell did you get on Obama? What a goof!

          • Mitch Witherell

            this issue is about state law vs city law period. State trumps city. That is it nothing more nothing less and to hear some politician say they fear about people carrying is ridiculous. We have passed the test, taken the class, passed a background check, we are law abiding people. The bad guys are who they should be fearing, not us! Oh and like you I too am retired from law enforcement and I get what you said about the idiot want to be’s, I really do but I don’t think that is the case here at all. It’s just goofy Oberlin, the San Fran on the east trying to make another issue out of nothing like everything else they do in fruit boot ville!

          • Zen Grouch

            Fruit boot ville…

            Well, they really did nothing that I can see. There is a law on the books that isn’t enforced. THIS is nothing.

            But the fruit flys are certainly buzzing up a storm.

          • Zen Grouch

            Perfect example of mountain out of a mole hole, but I guess that went over your head.

  • Zen Grouch

    **Currently, Oberlin’s ordinance bans firearms from the city’s parks, although state law allows it and it therefore isn’t enforced.**

    Oh… I thought Skoch was talking about some other State Law that Oberlin wasn’t “conforming” to… a law that they actually enforce.

    Thanks for clearing that one up.

    • Smira29595

      They are in violation of the US & State Constitution. So you see it is an unconstitutional law. You can’t break an unconstitutional law. See how easy that was.

      • Zen Grouch

        We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

        But as I see it, if a law is on the books, but isn’t enforced there is no violation as you believe.

        If there were a violation, why then doesn’t the NRA or some other gun organization take Oberlin to court?

        Then again, maybe they already have and I missed it.

        • MSG L

          Repair at the lowest level. Citizens asked for the ordinance to comply with State law. No need for lawsuits or high powered support. Yet

          • Zen Grouch

            Oh, the “citizens” are asking for the law to be corrected or taken off the books, ‘eh?

            Circulate a petition and put it on the ballot.

            But swaggering around in the park, packing hot lead is MUCH more fun!

  • Mark

    nothing like handing your enemy (so to speak) ammo for their cause.

    Knowing politicians and the libera’lovers of Oberlin, I would not for one minute put it past one of them to have put it out there to fan the flames… oh, wait, that may sound like another Oberlin topic…

  • SniperFire

    So Clelsea Miller. Why would you put your name on a story with a lying, deceptive headline?

  • SniperFire

    I pointed out that the headline was a lie, as contridicted in the first paragraph, and my post was deleted. The C-T is a joke. LOL

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