October 21, 2014

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Ford workers ‘blindsided’ by layoff announcement

By Chelsea Miller and Evan Goodenow

The Chronicle-Telegram

Ford Motor Co.'s Ohio Assembly Plant in Avon Lake is seen in this 2011 file photo. The plant announced Monday that it will lay off more than half of its workforce.

Ford Motor Co.’s Ohio Assembly Plant in Avon Lake is seen in this 2011 file photo. The plant announced Tuesday that it will lay off more than half of its workforce. CHRONICLE FILE PHOTO

AVON LAKE — Only employees with 22 years or more of seniority will keep their jobs after about 900 upcoming layoffs at Ford Motor Co.’s Ohio Assembly Plant.

This was according to a letter from plant manager Jeff Carrier to Tim Rowe, United Auto Workers Local 2000 chairman. The Monday letter said Carrier was notified by Ford that layoffs would occur in August after extended downtime while the plant is retooled for production of two new vehicle lines.

The layoffs of about half of the 1,866 plant workers were confirmed Tuesday night by Ford spokeswoman Kristina Adamski. She wouldn’t say whether the workers would be recalled, but Lorain County Commissioner Tom Williams said he was told by Gov. John Kasich’s administration that the layoffs are temporary.

Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols said he couldn’t speak for Ford and didn’t know if the layoffs were permanent or temporary. Nichols said he didn’t know if Ford notified anyone in the Kasich administration or any state agencies before workers being notified.

Rowe and other UAW officials didn’t return calls Wednesday. In a letter distributed at the plant in which he responded to Carrier’s letter, Rowe wrote that the layoffs would continue until the launch of the F-650 and F-750. The launch is scheduled for the second quarter of 2015.

“Going to one shift leaves roughly half of our workforce with the potential reality of having to uproot their families and transferring to other locations,” he wrote.

Mary Springowksi, a UAW team leader at the plant, said layoffs were never mentioned at a Sunday rank-and-file meeting and workers were “blindsided.” She said workers were told they would only be sidelined for about five or six weeks for plant retooling for the new vehicle lines.

“Everybody’s quite upset,” said Springowski, who said she was hired in 1991 and isn’t scheduled for a layoff. “They’re not quite sure what’s going on.”

Ford, the state and union reached an agreement in 2011 to move the new lines to the plant from Mexico. The plant produced the Econoline van for years and there were fears the facility might close before the announcement of the production shift from Mexico.

In 2011, just 41,000 of Ford’s 166,000 hourly workers were in the U.S. and just 27 of its 70 plants. Ford is investing $128 million into the Avon Lake facility to expand the plant for the production of F-650 and F-750 trucks.

The expansion and retooling of Ohio Assembly is part of a national $16 billion investment including $6.3 billion to retool and upgrade plants by Ford. The investment was agreed upon in 2011 after the UAW agreed to a four-year contract. The pact includes profit-sharing and $1,500 yearly bonuses rather than the cost of living adjustment frozen in 2009 UAW concessions during the Great Recession.

The Avon Lake investment included a $15 million, 15-year tax credit deal by the Ohio Tax Credit Authority. The deal is contingent on at least 1,400 hourly workers being retained at the plant.

Nichols said Wednesday night that he didn’t know specifics of the deal, but it includes “clawbacks.” Clawbacks mean that a percentage of the tax breaks would be withdrawn based on the number of workers below 1,400.

“Any company that doesn’t live up to the agreement that they signed for incentives, any company, we’ll claw that back,” Nichols said. “But we have every confidence in the world that Ford will not be among those.”

The layoffs come after a Jan. 3 announcement by Ford that 2013 was its best sales year since 2006 with a 14 percent sales increase, and Williams said he’s heard the new vehicle lines are still on track.

However, Rowe wrote to Carrier, the layoffs could hurt the skilled workforce, which he called “priceless.”

“The Company’s intent to initiate this plan will surely have a catastrophic effect on our workforce during this timeframe,” he wrote. “I will not accept this as the final outcome.”

The union wants the company to switch to rotating shifts during the decreased workload instead of one shift proposed by Ford. Adamski said the company is working with the union, and wouldn’t comment on the letter or provide further details.

Contact Chelsea Miller at 329-7123 or cmiller@chroniclet.com.

Contact Evan Goodenow at 329-7129 or egoodenow@chroniclet.com.


  • GreatRedeemer

    Classic politicians.

    “Lorain County Commissioner Tom
    Williams said he was told by Gov. John Kasich’s administration that the layoffs
    are temporary.”

    “Kasich spokesman Rob Nichols said he
    couldn’t speak for Ford and didn’t know if the layoffs were permanent or
    temporary. Nichols said he didn’t know if Ford notified anyone in the Kasich
    administration or any state agencies before workers being notified.”

    • Commissioner Tom Williams

      I spoke with Northeast Regiona Liason for the State of Ohio. She shared the following with me; In 2011, the Governor’s office met with Ford regarding the future of Avon Lake’s facility. An agreement was made to invest $75 Million into the facility and to maintain employment of at least 1,400 employees.
      There would be temporary layoffs while the facility goes through renovations.
      They also shared that the Governor along with Jobs Ohio met with Ford executives at the auto show and the agreement is still in place.

      • joebash

        Didn’t Ted Kalo and Lori see this coming. Remember the Escape that left early. Remember the Lorain Plant. Maybe these two need to go. I hope the UAW don’t expect to back these two again.

  • derp

    Is this part of the Jobs Ohio Kasich plan?

    • BITTERCLINGER36

      Nope, the Obama economic recovery plan, but hey don’t the dems say that every dollar of welfare and unemployment generates $2 in economic activity so 900 people signing up for unemployment should be an economic windfall?????I mean according to leftist economic theory lauded by Pelosi (D)California. What does Kasich have to do with lines moving to Canada or Mexico? The state already gave the tax incentives they can, what should he do?

  • SniperFire

    ‘However, Rowe wrote to Carrier, the layoffs could hurt the skilled workforce, which he called “priceless.”’ LOL. I think he meant priced less.

    • Charles wood

      I think we are now all dumber for reading your comment.

  • Bob Sweatt

    Am I missing something??? They are getting laid off NOT FIRED.

    They will get unemployment Right?? Which means they will get about 85% of their union wages. What’s the problem??

    • jennylou

      You don’t get 85% of your wages on unemployment! It tops out at a certain level and depends if you have children or not. There is some sort of formula based upon how much you make, but it’s not like a person making $100k per year is going to be making $85k per year on unemployment. I know this from experience when my husband was laid off and supporting our family of five (I was a stay at home mom then).

      • Bob Sweatt

        I just threw a number out. I don’t know how unemployment works. I have never had to be on it.

        But it is like we are expected to think these people will not have a job. At least that is what I am taking from the story. They will get unemployment and will be able to survive.

        • jennylou

          You’ve never been on unemployment but know that these people will be able to survive? Reality check time – it’s not easy to survive on unemployment! Part of the foreclosure crisis was because of job loss.

          • Bob Sweatt

            Lay off will occur in August. The new line will launch in the second quarter of 2015, which is April, May and June. That is 8 to 11 months. If you can’t live on unemployment for that long. Then you are living well out of your means to begin with.

            The whoever said that, “people are fearing they will have to relocate” is a moron.

            .

          • Charles wood

            no a moron is someone like you talking when you don’t have a clue

          • Jeremiah Donovan

            relocate is normal, when jobs open up at a plant they are offered to laid off workers first regardless of what state they are in. they are given two chances to return and if they do not take one of these two relocation jobs they are terminated. that pretty much means if a job comes up before their lay off ends then they pretty much have to relocate.

          • BITTERCLINGER36

            Oh, is “easy” a new right? Bob said they will survive, didn’t see easy mentioned in his comment. Getting paid anything when you don’t work should be appreciated, it isn’t the government’s responsibility to ensure that you don’t get foreclosed on….that is the borrower’s.

      • Brandy Lynn

        The max weekly benefit amount is $564 with 3 or more qualifying dependents. $507 with 1-2 and $418 with 0.

        • BITTERCLINGER36

          So $2256 to $1672 per month for not working seems like something to be appreciated. Now, that amount could be lower should the recipient choose to pay the tax it could be less.

          • Nick Noneya

            $1672 is more than twice what I have to live on on SS! I could live on that!!!

  • Bob Sweatt

    OK I don’t get it. They complained when the Econoline moved to Mexico. Now they are complaining that a new line is coming to Avon.

    Plus they agreed to this back in 2011. Did no one in the UAW see this coming?? So how, on god’s green earth, can they say they are being BLINDSIDED?? Did they think elves were going to come over a weekend and put the new line into the plant??

    • therest_ofthestory

      Being laid off for 5 or 6 weeks is a whole lot different than losing half a plant of people!

      • Bob Sweatt

        Not losing anything. They are getting laid off. Big difference. They getting laid off for 8 to 11 months.

        • Jeremiah Donovan

          8-11 months is still vastly different then 5-6 weeks and would completely change a familys plans

    • joebash

      The Econoline never went to Mexico it was built here and Canada years ago. As for the laid off not all will be coming back. I will take the transfer no big deal. As for the critics that bad mouth the line workers all I can say is come join us and see if you can last. Most body joints are needing replaced in your forties. So come on join us.

      • Bob Sweatt

        Just like anywhere. There are risks to your job. You choose to work there. Now deal with the outcome.

        • joebash

          I do deal with it and I know what the risks are. It doesn’t bother me one bit. Just tired of the people who never worked the line acting like they know what goes on in the plant. We don’t punch clocks so nobody can punch you in. When the line starts you better be at your job or you are docked, We can’t leave early because the line will stop if you are not at your job. No drinking going on. Just workers like everybody else that works a job.

          • Charles wood

            AMEN

      • Bob Sweatt

        Plus. I am sure that the men and women overseas in the military are laughing at your comment. I know I did. Although I am not over there.

        • joebash

          ahh Bob I know how the men and women serving our country feel Do You? or are you just one of those college boys that wussied out and avoid going to the services

        • Jeremiah Donovan

          i HAVE been over there as well as in this very plant(however not on the line), yes in the service it wears your body out however the plant is just as bad. its two different forces but each are equally bad for your body. service we see high impacts, high noises, and just too much weight for the human body to not break down. plant sees those high noises also(some of the equipment is as loud as the helicopters ive ridden in) some jobs also include heavy lifting, and instead of high impacts you see many repetitious movements which destroy your body just as quickly.

          • Dale VanAuken

            Not to mention that the line is going just as fast on your last van as it was on the first van. We are not robots and no robot can do what we do. If your shoe comes untied you have to wait until you have time to tie it. Believe me, after almost 22 years on the line you definitely can feel what it has done to you physically. I’m 54 now and I’m so…so.. tired , but for the sake of my family and all I’ve worked for I must go on.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            Isn’t it a choice you made? I’m not suggesting it is a great job, but I’d be surprised if you were forced to take the position.

          • Jeremiah Donovan

            there isnt much else if you want to make decent money, its the rust belt it depends on farming and manufacturing neither are easy on the body. sure you can go to college and many people do but the job market is very competitive and mostly supports manufacturing.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            Sometimes people have to make tough decisions and move on to greener pastures.

          • Jeremiah Donovan

            i see there is no arguing with you because you dont really care the only thing you will accept is someone saying your right. news flash, most of these people started working there 15+ years ago when the ford plant was one of the best paying jobs you could in the nation with a pension. yet you say they should have packed up there immediate families, moved away from the other members of their family, get a college degree somewhere…………….while somehow supporting their immediate family, and then HOPE where they moved they can get a job with that college degree. in a time when there was much less demand for those people with college degrees……………… yah sounds like your way would have been SUCH a better choice.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            Hold on there one second, froggy. You don’t get to put words in my mouth and I never said any of that. What I said was, “sometimes people have to make tough decisions and move on to greener pastures.”

            I was born and raised in Lorain (south Lorain), went off to college and came right back to my hometown to work in the steel mill (1980 to 2003). I had a great job there, dumped big bucks into my home, converting a ranch into a full two-story cape cod and would have been more than happy to live my life out there without a fuss. Unfortunately for me and a lot of other really good people, jobs at the mill started to fade into the sunset and opportunities started drying up. It was obvious a once thriving industry and local business had seen better days and I had to make a tough decision; stick around and hope things get better or pick myself by my own bootstraps and move on.

            After re-inventing myself into the automotive supply chain and moving a handful of times, I was lucky enough (and skilled enough) to end up in beautiful South Carolina alongside a lot of other yankees from up north.

            I left behind most of my family and friends (and the cold and snow), but sitting around feeling sorry for oneself wasn’t really an option. There are plenty of opportunities out there if you’re willing to put in the hard work. You might not ever find what you had, but you’ve probably never had what you’ll find.

            The only other thing I have to say is, your apology is accepted, in advance.

          • Jeremiah Donovan

            apologize for what? if anything you owe the appology, you are helping reinforce what i said. by YOUR OWN admission you got lucky to get a job in another market, you are also proving that you dont care what facts are or what anyone says the only thing you will accept is your own line of thinking. you are also attempting to compare COMPLETELY different situations. your initial argument was that he wasnt forced to take the job when most of these people took at job 15 years ago or more in this individuals case. you make assumptions that college and a different career path would have been better because it would have been easier on his body which is the entire argument.despite the FACT that he would have been LUCKY to get a job and would have had to move away to get it, starting out in debt with no certainty of actually getting a job, for roughly the same pay. it should have been obvious he picked what guaranteed him a job, WITH a pension which even in the time period was rare, making a similar income to college graduates WITHOUT debt AND getting to stay by family. your attempting to compare a job simply vanishing to one which is hard on the body but is there. if you really are a college graduate then as one myself i am appalled at the absolute lack of critical and logical thought you have put into your statements. your “Argument” is by far the weakest use of fallacy’s i have seen in months, you would think being educated about them would allow you to at least use them better even if they are false logic.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            I’m not sure why you want to continue arguing, relax a little.

            The days of indentured servitude are long over, well before our time. Nowhere did I suggest anyone made a bad choice working in the auto industry; again you are attempting to put words in my mouth. Enough of your tilting at windmills for the sake of tilting.

            For the record, I said I was lucky to end up in beautiful South Carolina, not lucky to get a job in another market.

            “your (sic) attempting to compare a job simply vanishing to one which is hard on the body but is there.” – Jeremiah Donovan

            Jeremiah, isn’t this article related to job reductions?

            Try to keep the personal attacks out of the conversation, please.

          • Jeremiah Donovan

            first of all no one is putting any words in your mouth except yourself, you are insinuating things and i am calling you out on it, dont like it dont make such comments.

            second your exact words “I was lucky enough (and skilled enough) to end up in beautiful South Carolina” the comment of both luck and skill in a comment both suggest they apply to the job and that it just so happened the job was in south carolina.

            third the article is related to job reductions however the conversation you responded DIRECTLY to was about what happens to peoples bodies working in the plant, not the article itself. if you wanted to discuss something else should have started a new thread

            fourth the “personal attacks” are because you made claims to something(college degree) yet have displayed skills that demonstrate high school at best lacking the basic skills required of a first year college graduate in regards to different types of analysis and processing skills attempting to hide them in proper spelling and grammar. on a internet discussion no less where hardly anyone even cares about such things as long as the discussion is thought out and accurate which yours has not been.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            (1) Of course you are right.
            (2) You read my mind better than I could imagine.
            (3) You are spot on. I apologize.
            (4) You are too smart for me.

            It’s hard for me to admit this publicly, but I picked the wrong guy to discuss/debate. You are clearly superior to me in education, experience and skills. I will make it a point to follow your comments and try to fashion myself after you.

      • Poester

        When we were still in high school 30 years ago, we took a tour of the Lorain Assembly Plant. I’ll never forget the several workers there advising us to find better careers than the ones they had. Tough people working a hard job, looking out for others. God Bless them.

    • joebash

      That is Mary trying to say we were blindsided, She is just a voice that is trying to become a union official. Just political bs. My question is she always acts like she has all this pull in Dearborn how did she not see it coming.

      • Charles wood

        ALL SHE WANTS TO DO IS CAUSE TROUBLE

    • Mary Kathleen Donovan Springow

      http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/10/northeast_ohio_to_lose_jobs_un.html

      This says that we only expected to lose 100 jobs at the plant…..

    • Charles wood

      BLINDSIDED, is something Mary Springouski came up with to get her name in the paper. She has not even been at work for over a week

      • Mary Kathleen Donovan Springow

        No, I haven’t. I’ve been out with pneumonia but isn’t it funny that people in the plant and elsewhere can reach me but not our union structure. That’s shameful! But I was at the union meeting….which you were not.

    • Jeremiah Donovan

      where do you get the econoline was moved to mexico? its produced at this very plant they are retooling. it wasnt moved it is being discontinued because of rollover standards or something of that nature. they have a new model coming out that is replacing it the full sized “transit”(larger version of the transit connect)

  • joebash

    Mary please stop being the spokes person for all of us. You cause more drama trying to be more then you are. You are just a group leader that will now probably end up working the line. Have fun!

    • Mary Kathleen Donovan Springow

      Unlike you, I’m using my real name. Nothing to hide. I got the phone call from the paper and told them that none of this had been discussed at the union meeting. Did you go to it? Probably not. In fact, I kept referring them back to the union officials. I didn’t call them, they called me. And how did any of what I said cause any drama? People are upset. No one is answering our questions. I think the people working on the line deserve to have their questions answered. But I see you don’t seem to like to be involved unless you can hide behind a fake name…..

      • Tracey

        Thats a really crappy way to treat so many dedicated employees! I have friends on second shift who said that noone from the front office would come out and talk to all the assembly people! I’m so sorry!

      • Charles wood

        GEE MARY WHY IS IT EVERY TIME THINGS HIT HE PAPER YOUR NAME IN IN IT Hmmmm….

        • Mary Kathleen Donovan Springow

          Maybe you should ask the reporter that.

        • Dale VanAuken

          If not Mary who? My God give her some credit. At least she is a dependable source of information. And she gets involved. If she completely stayed out of it people would be wandering where Mary was and what does she have to say. I take info from everyone that gives it to me. Fan or no fan , I want everyone’s opinion and advice.

  • joebash

    Watch the economy go down in the area now. Parts plants will layoff. no shopping, no going out to eat. Its going to be a ripple effect. Its just a shame what this country has come to where people wish ill on others.

  • Larry Crnobrnja

    It sucks whenever anyone loses their job. Nobody should get pleasure out of seeing another man or woman go through it.

  • amherst

    maybe if they would reduce some of the retired employees pensions these people might still have there jobs! Ford will never be a secure job

    • Debbie Salmons

      Really? You can’t spell their. They cannot and I will not allow them to reduce the retired employees pensions that they DESERVE!!!!!! They fought for this, they slaved for this, these workers are our fathers and forefathers. You know nothing about this. Be quiet.

      • Larry Crnobrnja

        Slaved? A bit dramatic, wouldn’t you say?

        • Dale VanAuken

          Are you kidding? I’m willing to bet most days we work harder than slaves. We don’t get whipped or tossed scrap foods or treated badly ( that’s questionable ) But we are pushed to the limit. Just when you think they’ve maxed out on how much work they’ve put on your job…they add more.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            Ridiculous.

          • Debbie

            I honestly probably shouldn’t have used the word slaved. Instead I will say they have worked their bodies to a body they shouldn’t have to retire with. A hurting, barely able to function normal self. Some, by the grace of God are able to actually enjoy retirement. To take away pay they need from their pockets and raise their medical when its most needed ( which by the way, they have) sickens me. If you haven’t researched your history on Unions and how the workers themselves have helped fight for rights, please do do before commenting again. Blessings to all.

          • Larry Crnobrnja

            I’ve got nothing against unions, except when a state passes laws that require union membership.

          • formerlorainresident

            I think the United Slave Workers may take exception to that comment.

            Oh wait, the slaves didm’t have a union to protect them.

          • formerlorainresident

            My apologies, the slaves also enjoyed the same benefits below as a UAW member:

            Weekends without work, or paid extra for working them

            All breaks at work, including your lunch breaks

            Paid vacation

            Family & Medical Leave Act (FMLA)

            Sick leave

            Social Security

            Minimum wage

            Civil Rights Act/Title VII – prohibits employer discrimination

            8-hour work day, overtime pay for longer hours

            Overtime pay

            Child labor laws

            Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)

            40-hour work week, overtime pay for longer hours

            Workers’ compensation (workers’ comp)

            Unemployment insurance

            Pensions

            Workplace safety standards and regulations

            Employer health care insurance

            Collective bargaining rights for employees

            Wrongful termination laws

            Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA)

            Whistleblower protection laws

            Employee Polygraph Protection Act (EPPA) – prohibits employers from using a lie detector test on an employee

            Veteran’s Employment and Training Services (VETS)

            Compensation increases and evaluations (i.e. raises)

            Sexual harassment laws

            Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)

            Holiday pay

            Employer dental, life, and vision insurance

            Privacy rights

            Pregnancy and parental leave

            Military leave

            The right to strike

            Public education for children

            Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 – requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work

            Laws ending sweatshops in the United States

          • Dale VanAuken

            First of all my point was about the back breaking labor we endure. Secondly thank you for sharing all the benefits unions brought to unionized shops Which filtered over to nonunion shops. A good percentage of what unions did for us also benefited nonunion.

          • formerlorainresident

            I might suggest that if at the “young” age of 54yo, your body is so devastated that you don’t feel you can’t go on, it may be time to look for training and move into another field. You are the only one stopping yourself from doing this. What good are you to your family if your job is putting you into an early grave? Or leaving you with a body not fit to retire with? Seem a little selfish that your own family would not encourage you to find something else and make the sacrifices you have the past 22 years to support them. So what has your union done to help? Seems to me with all the dues you have paid over the years, they would have provided at least some protection.

            You always have the choice to leave, unlike the salves you used as an analogy. This is the difference.

            I remember growing up in Lorain, my father is a retired Ford worker, at a time when jobs were plentiful. Many of my friends went to work at Ford, or at that time National Tube. They created a lifestyle which at the time I was envious of. New homes, cars, boats, while I was taking out loans to pay for college. They could not support their new lifestyles on a 40 hour work week, but relied on overtime pay to make their payments. It beat up their young bodies, which as they have aged they are now feeling the effects of. No one forced them into this, it was a choice which they made freely and are now being held accountable for, through the physical pains they now feel.

            They made their choice, I made mine. For a long time, they live a much better lifestyle, but I made the sacrifice at a young age, incurring huge amounts of debt to attend college and get a professional degree. Yesterday was their day, today is mine.

            We all have the freedom to decide what we want to do with our lives, but have to accept the consequences of those actions. You freely chose your profession, I freely chose mine. I avoided the temptation to go work on an assembly line, or in the mill, for the immediate gratification of a sizable paycheck at that time.

            I am not being mean-spirited, or condescending, but just reminding you that you always have a choice and often have to live with the choices you have made. That is how life works.

          • Zen Grouch

            **I am not being mean-spirited, or condescending, but…**

            Thanks for the laugh!

          • formerlorainresident

            Ahhhh Zen, I see you are back.

            Wasn’t sure if I would ever hear from the drunken Ex-New Orleans cop ever again. Now I remember where I heard your name before.

            So Zen, tell me, tell us all, are you not the former French Quarter cop, the very one who drank “heavy and non-stop.” even while on the job? The one who felt “being drunk didn’t get in the way of the job, and in my case may have actually helped?”

            So Zen, is this really you? Please tell us that you would never betray the public trust in this manner, the very the public that was paying you to protect them.

            You would never violate your oath in this manner, would you? Did you drive your patrol car around while drunk? Did you ever pull your firearm while under the influence? You know just carrying one in an impaired state is a crime, not unlike many of the criminals in your own hometown, the ones we see on these pages everyday and whom you constantly comment on.

            If so, you have lost what ever little credibility you may think you have on this forum, or any other. Credibility has as one of its components, trustworthiness, which it is now obvious you do not possess.

            Your rantings, which you have admitted have at times been composed while under the influence, have been derogatory and at times crude toward Blacks, Mexicans, Asians, Women, Government Workers, and worst of all, BMW drivers. Is there any group of people you do not hate?

            And we wonder why criminals have no respect for the law? Your behaviors have done nothing but erode public respect and trust, and damage public confidence in law enforcement, which only serve to hurt efforts to make the community safer.

            If you are the same Zen, then you are a despicable, hatred-filled human being and a stain on the profession of law enforcement. Your racially offensive, often incomprehensible rantings, are an embarrassment.

            So, is this the same Zen? Please Zen, say it ain’t so.

          • formerlorainresident

            One more thing, I found it interesting that you would criticize Ford workers for drinking on the job, with you having to pick up their slack while you worked there.

            I would post several links, however out of respect for the women and children who may read this forum, I will refrain from doing so.

            Your language is vile and not appropriate for reading by decent human beings.

          • Zen Grouch

            Like I said more than once already… you sir, live in a world of assumptions…

            I said I picked up the slack for workers who would come back from lunch drunk, but did I criticize them, as you said?

            For such a smart guy, your reading comprehension really does suck.

          • Zen Grouch

            If I didn’t know any better, the way you’re following me around, I’d say you got a crush…

            Either that or you are one very creepy fellow.

            On second thought, either way, you are one very creepy fellow.

            I mean, the way you’re proud of yourself for hitting my ‘follow’ button and going to the link I provided, was sheer genius! But it was off-putting getting that e-mail from Disqus advising me that you were my new follower.

            Hey… want to read some other vile stuff?

            Do a Google search using these three things:
            “BMW A** H***”

            Looks I’m not the only one to believe that BMW has more than it’s share of total jerk owners…

            …and you seem to be doing your darnedest to prove it!

            Oh, but I’m “not being mean-spirited, or condescending” or anything like that!

            …no seriously, you’re really weird in a bad, stalker kind of way.

          • formerlorainresident

            Zenny, Zenny, Zenny;

            No assumptions, just stating the facts. I live in a “world of assumptions,” but you make such a ludicrous statement, as people who drive a certain brand of car are “jerks.” Talk about making assumptions. Really?

            Interesting that I am the “stalker”, however I have never INITIATED any response to any of your comments, unless you first made some ridiculous response to something I posted. So, who is following who?

            I have a solution, you refrain from your impulsive behaviors to respond directly to my posts, and I will not have to answer your replies. I bet you can’t do it, can you? I have made this request previously, but you always feel compelled to come back. Like a stalker.

            Based on your previous rantings, where you stated you write while impaired, I cannot help but to think this is the case more often than not.

            You have posted more than1150 comments on Discus, but others are the ones who have nothing better to do than spend their time here. A little hypocritical don’t you think? You have probably made more posts to this site than anyone, but accuse others, not just me, of spending too much time here. Really?

            Honestly Zenny, you are not the most agile athlete in the mental gymnasium. You say you think I have a “crush” on you? No, I just enjoy “crushing” your asinine comments. In fact, when I saw a photo of that monkey, Brody I think his name was, I was taken back as he does look a lot like you. Not kidding, very similar facial features. Kind of a separated at birth thing.

            So, you cannot dispute any of the comments I made above disclosing the type of person you really are. You once again go back to bringing up something as irrelevant as a BMW? Really? Looks like you lost this one Zenny!

            Above you state that you did not criticize the Ford workers who were drunk at work. But then you go on to say the union protects these workers and this protection was the “mentality that shut down the Lorain plant.” Sounds like a criticism to me. Does this not imply that these drunk workers in some way brought this plant closure upon themselves?

            In my opinion, you are a disgusting human being. You spew hatred for everyone, including Blacks, Mexicans, Asians and Women. This is well-documented and not open for debate. Do you like any group of people?

            Why are you so unhappy in your life? I always thought the Zen philosophy was one of tolerance toward others and inner peace. Even your name is hypocritical.

            You have been “outed” for the type of person you really are. You are disingenuous and really have no credibility when it comes to being critical of anyone. You are simply a name-caller, who resorts to this tactic when you have lost a debate, for a lack of facts. We all know your type.

            So did you feel guilty taking taxpayer money while working drunk? Responding to and driving to emergencies while under the influence? Breaking the law and carrying a weapon while impaired? Or is it more important what kind of car I drive? Do you feel any remorse?

            Debating you is like “playing chess with a pigeon – you knock over all the pieces, defecate on the board, and then fly back to you flock to brag about how you won.”

            Yes Zenny, we all know your type. And no, this is not an “assumption,” but rather a fact based on your own behaviors.

            Goodbye Zenny.

          • Zen Grouch

            All I can say is, I truly hope you’re under a competent doctor’s care, and see the wisdom of getting back on your meds.

    • Kathy Greenleaf Woljevach

      I agree with Debbie on this (amherst). My father is a retiree, he brings home about $900 a month. Wow, does that sound like he’s making a killing? I think we need to take care of our seniors no matter where they worked. They shouldn’t have to be worrying about Dr bills, medication. They deserve much better than they are getting. I am upset with myself for reading as many posts as I have because what I have gotten out of it is that there are a lot of people jealous of Ford workers. That was just how I interpreted it.