November 27, 2014

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Avon Lake OKs year-round deer bow hunting

A mother deer and her two fawns play at Bleser Park in Avon Lake. council on Monday passed an ordinance allowing residents to manage deer populations through bow hunting. KRISTIN BAUER/CHRONICLE

A mother deer and her two fawns play at Bleser Park in Avon Lake. council on Monday passed an ordinance allowing residents to manage deer populations through bow hunting. KRISTIN BAUER/CHRONICLE

AVON LAKE — Grab a crossbow, obtain the proper paperwork and you’re on your way to taking part in deer culling efforts in this lakeside community.

Avon Lake City Council passed an ordinance Monday night allowing the city and private citizens to manage white-tailed deer populations with the use of archery equipment.

Passage took nearly two hours as City Council members and other officials bantered about potential amendments, legislative language and points of order.

Deer culling has been discussed since 2012, and the city enacted a previous culling ordinance which they ultimately decided was too restrictive. The new legislation permits the taking of deer with archery equipment as long as an application for a municipal deer control permit is submitted to police with maps detailing where hunting will occur, the property’s total acreage, signatures of all property owners, names and ages of all shooters who will be on the property, shooters’ Ohio hunting license verification and proof of completion of the Ohio hunter education course.

The police chief or his designee will visit properties to determine that shooting archery equipment is safe.

City Council member Dave Kos, 4th Ward, introduced several amendments to the ordinance on June 30, including minimum acreage requirements, excluding culling or hunting operations on properties adjacent to schools or day care centers, and conducting criminal background checks on those applying for deer control permits.

Officials said Kos’ amendments were the reason the previous ordinance was ineffective. Kos withdrew several of the proposed amendments June 30 to give his colleagues two more weeks to consider them.

Only one of those proposed amendments, requiring shooting to be conducted from a fixed, elevated position at least 10 feet off the ground, was added to the legislation on June 30. But this requirement also may be waived by the police chief, according to ordinance language.

At Monday night’s meeting, Kos again introduced amendments. One, which failed on a 3-3 vote (council president Martin O’Donnell was absent), would have made shooting within 100 yards of a school illegal unless the police chief approved it.

Another amendment that passed requires notifying neighbors of property where bow hunters plan to shoot.

“I’m grateful I got the notification passed because I believe every resident wants to be notified if there is hunting next door,” Kos said. “But how anyone could approve of hunting within 100 yards of a school is beyond me.”

About three dozen residents attended the meeting, but only three spoke regarding the legislation — one in favor of it and two opposed. Elaine Hilliard said she is concerned with what she sees as a lack of safety details in ordinance language and the potential for accidents caused by hunters with inadequate skills or equipment.

“It’s one of the reasons I choose to live in a city and not a rural area,” she said.

Resident Margaret Artin said she questions allowing culling efforts to occur 365 days a year.

“I feel this misguided program will end with much trouble and expense for Avon Lake,” she said.

Resident Ken Kaminski said he has no problem with the city’s approach. Kaminski said he spoke on behalf of several neighbors whose properties amounted to nearly 3.5 acres where he’s counted at least 24 deer.

“All three families support the current deer legislation,” Kaminski said. “I think it’s a practical way to approach the problem.”

Officials maintain deer culling is necessary because of an excessive number of deer-related vehicular accidents, destruction of natural habitats, increases in the risk of disease transmission to humans from deer parasites, and damage to public and private property.

According to ordinance language, the city’s Environmental Affairs Advisory Board studied various options to control the deer population and received input from the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, the Cleveland Museum of Natural History, the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo and other municipalities before recommending that Council adopt a comprehensive deer management program.

Zilka said as long as citizens take the proper steps and get a deer culling agricultural permit, they can bow hunt any time of the year. The mayor said he’s pleased an ordinance passed despite the hurdles and confusion.

“It’s a big improvement over what we had and I’m pleased with that,” Zilka said.

Kos maintained the ordinance is not safe and he stood by his desire to see additional safety amendments added. At one point, the audience applauded him.

“I am going to walk out of here with my head held high because I am doing what I think are sensible, decent things,” Kos said.

Contact Jon Wysochanski at 329-7123 or jwysochanski@chroniclet.com. Follow him on Twitter @JonWysochanski. 

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  • me101

    Just great. I’ll be dodging arrows! Too bad Avon Lake didn’t foresee this with the housing developers before they built. I guess they know which side of their bread is buttered! Hunting in a residential area is unsafe,

    • Mark B

      so is deer /car accidents .

    • Jeff

      Money trumps all !!! it can be safe if you have the responsible hunters doing it.

    • golfingirl

      Unless you live in a tree with the squirrels, you are as guilty as anyone for “stealing” their land and creating this problem.

      You have your house, but how dare anyone else be permitted to build theirs, infringing on the “land of the deer.”

      Do you think this may be a little hypocritical?

      • Pablo Jones

        Deer are people too. When I see a deer that has built or purchased a nice house and pays their taxes I respect their privacy and stay out of their house and yard. Too bad they aren’t as respectful.

      • me101

        Nope, What makes you think I live in populated area? The deer HAD plenty of room to go. Now, it’s over populated and have no where to go Someone should have foreseen that.

    • Simon Jester

      You’re probably the same sort of dim bulb that was screeching “BLOOD IN THE STREETS!!!” when we finally go concealed carry, too.

      • me101

        Oh, I have guns! Now,stay on the subject. Deer, not guns. Now who is the dim bulb?

  • Jeff

    Being an avid hunter I agree, archery is the best way. However…..hunting year round is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Hunting should only be allowed during regular hunting season hours and dates as to keep with state and federal laws. You just can’t make up laws as you go. Next, after deer shed their antlers (before the end March) most people will not even know what they are shooting. Buck or doe. They will just be eager for the kill. Next, Deer have their young in late spring. If you can hunt 365 might stand( a high risk) of killing a pregnant doe that is about to give birth. Do you really want to gut a deer and find a fawn inside ??? What about after the doe gives birth. now the doe gets shot and her fawn is left to die because she cannot care for it. I don’t even live in Avon Lake and I still dislike you for how you are going about this.
    City of Avon Lake…..You really need to rethink this. You are bringing a S&*^Storm upon yourselves and you don’t even realize it !!!!

    • tommtomm

      Jeff i am an avid bow hunter too. at first i said sweet this is guaranteed deer and big bucks. then i seen the 365day hunting. i agree 100% with you i wont shoot a doe in late season because who knows if shes pregnant. i think we should give odnr a call and ask why they are allowing this. to me this is a violation of state law and city law cannot overide state laws.

      • stillsleepyeyes

        ohh my, so you won’t shoot a pregnant doe?……….I thought this was about thing the herd…………….or is it just for trophy bucks?

        • Jeff

          really ??? is this the stupid comments we are going to get for trying to help do the right thing ??? come on, you have to have more sense than that

          • stillsleepyeyes

            trying to help do the right thing……………hmmm………so council is trying to thin the herd…………and you are saving the babies…………….looks ironic …………….

        • tommtomm

          im a meat hunter not a horn hunter. i wont shoot a pregnant doe. i will shoot them early season but late season in jan-feb i will not shoot them. i will not be going an asking for permission in the city either.

          • Jeff

            don’t waste your time with this one tomm…. still is just a troll that has zero common sense

          • C. Carney

            the point is to eradicate the deer population from avon lake. the city doesnt want ANY deer in it’s limits, so taking out a prego deer is a 2-for. and if its late term, then you get venison veal too, and i can’t think of a tastier idea. but the point is, the want zero deer and if your not willing to shoot on site, this isnt the program for you. thats just the way it is. but for all the trophy hunters, avon lake has a nice albino buck. good luck (dodged too many deer while driving home)

          • Shar

            That ‘trophy’ you so callously refer to has become a legend of sorts, please respect it.

          • Bill Love

            Any taught respect for hunting would agree with u

      • Jeff

        I agree….good point. they need to be notified of this. One cant just make up laws to serve ones self !!

        • tommtomm

          ive got a degree in criminal justice/law enforcement and state law overides city law. the state says hunting seasons are this and if its in the ohio revised code/state law than the city has to obey it.

          • Pablo Jones

            Wouldn’t this fall under the area of Nuisance wild animal control? Where the deer can be killed out of season. And possibly under a controlled hunt. It would depend on how they write the law up and the provisions that ODNR wants to establish.

          • golfingirl

            This has been an ongoing debate in Avon Lake for years.

            I am sure the decision was made in accordance with all laws, with input from the Avon Lake Law Department.

            To not do so would be immediately challenged by those who oppose allowing deer hunting in the city.

            I do not know the laws, ODNR regulations etc, but bet that the city does and crafted the legislation within all rules and regulations. They covered their butts on this one.

        • tommtomm

          i just got an email back from odnr stating as usual the facts have been misinterpreted. hunting is only allowed during the season thanks. what is this, thats the most half answer ive ever seen.

          • Pablo Jones

            It seems they don’t equate this to hunting. Hunting doesn’t equal nuisance wild life control.

          • tommtomm

            i know a guy that has nuisance permits, the county game warden has to come out and look for damage and that its done by deer. the city cant decide that. i hope odnr does something about this. this is complete b.s. im all for helping out but during the season when the fawns are weaned from the mom. i may take part in this in october. also for any nay sayers im not doing this for a trophy there are programs such as hunters for hunger last year we donated thousands of pound of deer meet to homeless shelters.

          • Jeff

            lol…wow…more dimwits. just what we do not need.

          • tommtomm

            there is a new article from avon lake defending this. lol. i figured odnr would stop it.

          • Jeff

            yep

    • tommtomm

      jeff i am an avid bowhunter and at first i was happy to here this but after seeing the 365day hunting i agree with you 100%. how can the city overide state law for hunting seasons. maybe we need to cal division of wildlife and ask how they are allowing this. im with you about the fawns. i wont shoot a doe in late season for this reason.

    • Scout

      Well said Jeff.

    • tommtomm

      sent odnr an email today. cant wait to see what they say about year round deer hunting. are you going to look into hunting avon lake during the season. i may look into it. looked at an overhead map not very much woods. and what there is is small like 5 acres

      • Jeff

        definatly looking into it. i just dont want to get into the pissed off neighbor senario that comes out and stands right beneath your stand though. gonnna have to talk to neighbors first. i just dont want any hassles. lemme do my job and go home..lol . i made a call to my local dnr ( he alreday knew about it ) and they were supposed to pass it on to appropriate dept. i also contacted a couple other television stations about this. i havent heard anything yet.
        ( Thank God for backstrap )

  • susan hill brown

    Mr. Kos, my councilman, you have every right to hold your head high. Ward 1,2, and 3 councilman, the 2 at-large and Council President need to be held accountable when an arrow does severe damage to a human being. And the Mayor – holding the puppet strings of those politicians who were in favor of this legislation. Oh my, SAFETY WAS ELIMINATED FROM THIS NEW LAW!!!! The law director is now guaranteed of continued employment because of the dangers of this legislation. The mayor appoints the law director so you know what team the mayor is the leader of. Thank you Mr. Kos for all you did to try to keep Avon Lake safe.

  • adoresanimals

    Jeff, although I totally oppose hunting in the city, you make some good points.

    I’m sickened with the thought of seeing wounded doe and fawn running with an arrow in their side – right into traffic! There has never been a fatal deer accident, so those of you who use this as your defense, get a new one! Cars need to simply slow down.
    I’ll now be moving from this city in the very near future. It used to be a pleasure
    living here when we moved in 27 years ago – it is now very different.

    • Jeff

      Even for me….it is a gross thought. I was not taught to hunt in a manner that the city will be allowing people to.
      As for the car accidents, most insurance companies cannot charge you a deductible because hitting a deer is what they consider an act of god.

    • Sue Lawson

      People know when mating season is and need to be more aware. I have dodged hitting a deer more than 2 x’s. Also have avoided them at night because I watched.

      • Jeff

        it not about mating season…it’s about birthing season. and yes there is a difference. avon lake is breaking a lot of state and federal laws with this. we as hunters have to follow the rules. and must of us have morals. and no , most people don’t know when mating season is.I am sorry you have to dodge deer, but on the other hnd I am sure you have dodge a kid or too as well

        • Mark B

          Maybe Obama will give them FREE Birth Control

          • Joe Smith

            It would have to be the pill as it is very hard ( being a deer) put on a condom without thumbs!

          • golfingirl

            Unless of course, they work at Hobby Lobby….laughing.

          • Pablo Jones

            Previous comment on hold, lets try it again.

            You know if they were just taught safe intercourse at an early age, 1-2 years old, Avon Lake wouldn’t be in this situation. I bet the Bucks aren’t even in the picture. Again in the end it is the government that has to come in and take care of things, and even they are passing the buck (pun intended) on it.

    • golfingirl

      Slow down….they have run into the side of my car twice! Rear quarter panels, both times. Completely unavoidable and I was not speeding.

      Darted out of the woods, and ran right into me!

      As for never being a fatal deer accident, I assume you mean not fatal to the driver, but definitely to the deer.

      It is equally as sad to see a wounded deer hobble away following a collision with a car, only to look for a quiet place to lay down and die a slow, agonizing death.

      And…you words….”there has never been a fatal deer accident.”

      Maybe not in Avon Lake….YET!

    • golfingirl

      “There has never been a fatal deer accident, so those of you who use this as your defense, get a new one!”

      Really?

      2012- Ohio Department of Transportation Numbers:

      22,733 Car/Deer Collisions

      903 Injuries

      7 HUMAN Fatalities.

      • adoresanimals

        I was referring to fatal accidents in the city of Avon Lake.
        Aren’t you concerned about the injured deer running into the streets and causing more accidents??? I think you just get a kick out of killing innocent animals – why don’t you just do us all a favor and stay on the golf course!

        • golfingirl

          Now I understand, fatalities have only occurred in other Ohio cities, which means they will NEVER occur in Avon Lake.

          And if a death did not occur in Avon Lake, it doesn’t matter….just another dead out-of-towner, I guess.

          So tell me, what is your solution?

          Just let them breed, and starve to death due to a lack of food to sustain the increasing numbers?

          Cars are their only “natural” enemy right now…..just let the accidents continue to occur as a means of population control?

          Starvation and maiming by cars, leading to an agonizing and slow death is the humane solution? This is what is happening, or do you choose to ignore the reality because it is to painful for you to accept?

          Maybe we should just tear down all the homes and give the land back to the animals?

          So, what is your solution? It is a problem, and ignoring it is not an answer.

        • Joe Smith

          “I think you just get a kick out of killing innocent animals”
          So you don’t eat ANY meat or use products like leather?

  • Phil Blank

    Would Kos like to go for a walk or hike in the wooded area and fields?

    • Pablo Jones

      Probably depends on how closely he resembles a deer.

      • Joe Smith

        We could get him one of those antler hats.

  • Sue Lawson

    If a wounded deer dies in someone’s yard, who will be responsible for cleaning it up?

    • Jeff

      the odnr or city

      • Sue Lawson

        A highway patrol officer hit a deer in front of my sister’s house and left it, neighbor witnessed this. Nice huh? This was in Grafton and since it wasn’t by the road my sister had to dispose of it. My husband and a friend got rid of the deer for her.

    • Simon Jester

      Already have pursuit laws on the books for that. Guy that shoots the deer can legally haul it out of someones yard.

      • Jeff

        sorry, I misunderstood the original question. simon is correct. However he needs the permission of the land owner to retrieve it otherwise it is trespassing

        • Simon Jester

          Nope. that’s covered too.

      • Sue Lawson

        But what if he didn’t know where it went. I wouldn’t want a dead carcass in my yard.

  • tommtomm

    someone should call division of wildlife and ask them why the city is violating state law to allow hunting 365day a year. archery seasons sept 30-feb2 thats plenty of time

  • golfingirl

    Bye, Bye Bambi….

    • Kim

      You really are such a witch!

      • golfingirl

        Thank you for you opinion.

        • Joe Smith

          Unless it is a baby animal

  • http://www.coachkevind.com Kevin M. Davis

    This is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen. How can people with any competence allow shooting near a school? Also, requiring that arrows are shot from a 10′ elevation is only common sense. Stray arrows are limited to a small radius near the target area. Now, any rookie can miss with a crossbow and a stray arrow could strike a kid on a baseball diamond a 1/4 mile away. Yet, in Avon Lake we can’t own a chicken to produce eggs for our own family? Avon Lake City Council, I recommend you do some research on common sense and see what you can do to improve your current lack of said skill set.

    • Guest

      A cross bow going that far probably won’t happen. Us hunters aren’t stupid like a lot of people think.

  • tommtomm

    we need to call division of wildife and ask why year round hunting is allowed and there is also state laws that prohibit this as well as hunting year round. 1800 wildohio is the number

    • Mark B

      Call o ne of the local tv stations and let them run a story on it

    • NiceTry

      I actually called them this afternoon and they said it is against the law. They are taking action this afternoon.

      • tommtomm

        who did you call? odnr?

  • NiceTry

    That is against the state of Ohio law. Ethically you cannot hunt doe that are carrying fawns, nursing, etc. I just notified the ODNR and they are reaching to their legal department to stop such a foolish idea. What are these city leaders thinking. I am all for bow-hunting an population control but do it the right way.

    • Pablo Jones

      Based on the limited detail in the article and the state law. It sounds like they are considering the Deer to be a nuisance wild animal. If the city has someone licensed as a wild life control officer they can authorize other people to take care of the deer.

      (B) Commercial nuisance wild animal control operator

      (1) Notwithstanding any other provision in this rule, it shall be lawful for any person applying for and receiving a commercial nuisance wild animal control operators license, and any person acting under the authority of a commercial nuisance wild animal control operators license, to trap or take nuisance wild animals. Such trapping or taking shall be in accordance with the following provisions:

      (1) White-tailed deer

      (a) White-tailed deer which are causing damage or have become a nuisance may be captured or killed by licensed commercial nuisance wild animal control operator or other persons, only after such landowner or agent of the landowner, where the damage or nuisance is occurring has received a permit from the chief of the division of wildlife or their designee.

      (b) The division of wildlife representative approving a permit for a landowner or agent of the landowner, to take, trap or capture white-tailed deer may include specific stipulations on that permit under which white-tailed deer may be captured or killed. It shall be unlawful for any person to violate any stipulation set forth on their permit. A violation of any permit stipulation is a violation of this rule and such permit is then subject to revocation by the chief of the division of wildlife or their designee.

      When you talked to ODNR did you say the city was giving year round hunting licenses for deer or did you say they were authorizing people to thin the herd.

    • Jeff

      awesome job…thx for the help…..we all need to stick together on this…no way this type of hunting can be permitted !!

  • Pablo Jones

    With all the complaining do you really think this is going to be a big problem? First how many bow hunters are there. And of those how many will go through the extra steps required to hunt out of season? And how many wouldn’t have any reservations about shooting at certain times of the year?

    Most likely you will only have a handful of people apply and they will only do it at certain times of the year, not year round. I would guess the time they would do it would be the month before deer season starts.

  • Kyle Wagner

    My buddies and I would be happy to hunt your property in Avon Lake if you meet the requirements and you have a problem with the deer on your land email me kwagner3210@yahoo.com thanks!

  • Roseann Laird

    Stupid someone is going to get hurt or killed possibly a child. That is just cruel to bow and arrow shoot them!!!

  • hottamomma

    I hope they do that in the city I live in now. Deer everywhere in Strongsville

  • Scout

    So are the ‘hunters’ required to go through safety course and be registered? Does this mean that ‘any Joe or Jane’ can purchase the necessary bow/arrows, climb a tree in their backyard and start slinging arrows any which way? And no where in the article does it mention what happens to the meat from the carcass. I do agree with hunting but only if it is consumed and not for sport.

    • Pablo Jones

      “The new legislation permits the taking of deer with archery equipment as long as an application for a municipal deer control permit is submitted to police with maps detailing where hunting will occur, the property’s total acreage, signatures of all property owners, names and ages of all shooters who will be on the property, shooters’ Ohio hunting license verification and proof of completion of the Ohio hunter education course.

      The police chief or his designee will visit properties to determine that shooting archery equipment is safe.”

      • Scout

        Thank you for the information.

      • Shar

        Thank goodness that property owners need to give signed approval beforehand. BUT THAT DOESN’T ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF A WOUNDED / READY-TO-DIE DEER APPEARING ON THEIR PROPERTY!! Who will have to deal with that, as well as the toll it may have on children witnessing the agonizing sights too?

        • Pablo Jones

          I’m pretty sure the hunter will deal with it. As for the kids, it will be a valuable life lesson on where meat comes from.

    • tommtomm

      98% of hunters especially bow hunters practice alot. its not hard to do with a crossbow. i am a compound bow hunter and practice all summer at least 2 times a week i can place 6 arrows in a football size target at 40yards. arrows are only good for 70yards and when in a tree stand its going to hit the ground.

      • Scout

        Thank you for the update.

        • tommtomm

          also every hunter in ohio has to take a hunter safety course they are 2 days long with certified odnr instructors. you have to get like a 90% to pass. i forgot to include this,

          • Scout

            Thank you …both husband and 2 sons have had the safety course and get their licenses every year. Let’s hope that should this all go thru that there won’t be any horror stories.

  • todd

    I’ll be dodging arrows is what some misguided and emotional people say. What they really s meant to say is…I have no idea what I’m talking about and I’m just saying something totally irresponsible to make me feel better. Educate yourself. It’s not like the movie 300 out there.

  • todd

    It has worked flawlessly in N. RIDGEVILLE over the last two years. People are feeding their families creating memories and culling an overpopulated deer herd. Anybody heard anything bad. Nope.
    PETA / Overboard animal protectionists can step off the closest cliff please.

    • Starryeyes63

      and I thought PETA was People Eating Tasty Animals…………… My bad

  • Natalie Jarnstedt

    This is the most asinine idea I’ve ever heard, and the most heartless, if one can make bowhunting even more so. Some special culls have instructed to remove fetuses, assess their approximate ages, ages and weight of does, how many fetuses, etc. – it’s a real pretty and special sight seeing those photographs! In this case, being year-round, does will be killed, leaving small fawns to fend for themselves, but, oops, the fawns will be fair game, too – so why worry about them, right? Arrows flying throughout the whole year, congratulations, residents! Responsible hunters is as much an oxymoron as ethical hunters….

  • Natalie Jarnstedt

    This is the most asinine idea I’ve ever heard, and the most heartless, if one can
    make bowhunting even more so. Some special culls have been instructed to remove fetuses, assess their approximate ages/sizes, ages and weight of does, the number of fetuses per doe, etc. – it’s a real pretty and special sight seeing those photographs proudly posted by hunters!
    In this case, being year-round, does will surely be killed, leaving fawns of all sizes/ages to fend for themselves, but, oops, the fawns will be fair game, too – so why worry about them, right?

    I find the term “responsible’ hunter as much an oxymoron as “ethical” hunter….
    Arrows flying throughout the whole year, congratulations,residents!

    • golfingirl

      You already said that below.

      • Natalie Jarnstedt

        You ARE really diligent, but not diligent enough, golfinggirl. I erased the one below, and changed/added to the one above. Obviously, it didn’t work as it was supposed to. So, I hope that this didn’t ruin your day! I’ll try not to let it get to me, bummer….

        • golfingirl

          Not a problem, I just hate repetition….

          So, just curious….what is your solution to the local problem in Avon Lake?

          I assume you are local, and have experienced the deer problem here firsthand.

          • Natalie Jarnstedt

            My advice would be to rely on peer-reviewed scientifically based studies that provide background on what happens when hunting is used as deer control. There are other things to consider such as biological carrying capacity versus social carrying capacity, deer-surveys, of which there are several types, to determine the number of deer per square mile, and non-lethal alternatives. If a number of deer are killed in an area which can support that number easily, deer from surrounding areas will move in, unless one would like a totally deer-free environment: Kill all the deer and fence in the entire area, with guard houses and gates to keep other deer from moving in – that’s the ONLY way! In a peer-reviewed Richter & Labisky study, it was found that hunted herds produce twins/triplets at a rate of 38%, while that number drops significantly to only 14% in non-hunted deer herds; one need only to do some math to see the impact hunting can produce in a given area. Similarly, it was found that killing deer does nothing to reduce the number of Lyme disease causing black-legged ticks;they don’t die, they merely drop off and take up residence on the remaining deer and on any mammal that happens by. In fact, browsing deer also remove much of black-legged ticks’ ideal
            habitat. As far as DVAs, no one can foresee that the killed deer specifically would have been involved in any.

          • golfingirl

            I appreciate the background you provided, you are obviously educated on the subject, but what is the answer?

            So what is the your solution to specifically address the issue in Avon Lake?

            Also, are you a local resident?

          • Natalie Jarnstedt

            golfinggirl: Yes, I do have all the info that’s available – I gave you one very important one, the birth rates of hunted and non-hunted herds, and the researchers’ names. The answer to “what’s the answer” should be obvious, based on the touched-upon studies! I am not going to post everything here to be ridiculed – it’s obvious that no one really wants to learn of any alternatives (this should have been done before the decision to kill year-round). If you seriously want any of the background info, you can Google and contact me personally or I can give you the name(s) of local contacts, which I am not. I have been working on this issue since 1989 and I know of what I speak!

          • golfingirl

            Just so I understand, your solution is to do nothing, since by doing something, it will only exacerbate the problem.

            In Avon Lake , they have done the deer surveys, and have reached the “social carrying capacity.”

            For example, we have had as many as 17 deer in our yard, which is a standard neighborhood sized lot. On a recent trip across the city, we counted 42 deer over 3 miles, all in the middle of the day.

            What is the “biological carry” capacity? 100 deer over 3 miles?

            We have mothers with three fawns currently roaming the streets. Even without hunting, multiple births are the norm.

            So exactly what are the “non-lethal” alternatives? Putting a fence around the city is not an option, but the only one you mentioned above.

            Not being argumentative, just want to know all options.

            One issue, is that many who “love” the deer feed them, put out salt licks and water. If they are well fed, my guess is they will never reach their “biological carry capacity,” as these humans are artificially inflating this number.

            So what are the non-lethal options which are both practical and effective?

          • todd

            How about you take your advice that nobody wants and….

          • Natalie Jarnstedt

            todd: You obviously don’t seem to have any good reading and comprehension skills – hone up on them before you make a fool of yourself again.

          • todd

            Look my name is Natalie. I can type a bunch of nonsense so it must be true. Lolol let me know if you want to go hunting. I’ll take you and teach you the truth.

          • Natalie Jarnstedt

            Ditto of my previous reply.

  • golfingirl

    Thank you for the compliment.

    I appreciate your kind words.

    Oh, if you don’t like my comments, simply click on the little dash to the right of my name….and poof!…..my comments disappear.

  • golfingirl

    You state I am “ugly on the inside.” Really?

    You have referred to me here as:

    Ugly, Troll, Swamp Thing, a Joke, Jaded, Negative, Bitter and a Witch a few times.

    But I have not been the only one targeted with your “kind” words, have I?

    You have referred to others here as:

    Airheads, Stupid, Ignorant, Delusional, POS, Fools, Sick a-holes, Douchebags, Losers, Ugly, Repulsive, Pigs, Gorillas and Fat.

    Hmmmm….and I am the “ugly” one?

    Have a little hypocrite in you?

  • golfingirl

    That is sooooo not true.

    I was careful to only quote words you used against other posters.

    You are not being truthful, are you?

    Remember, click on the little dash to the right of my name and you will never have to read my comments.

    Or even easier, just scroll right on by.

  • Kim

    You are the one ” not being truthful”.
    Since you seem to have lots of time maybe you should re-read my comments, stalker.
    You have a problem with Anyone challenging you or your comments.
    I believe therapy may be helpful with your narcissistic disorder!

  • golfingirl

    I honestly am not sure what it is that compels you to criticize me.

    You may not agree with several of my opinions, however they are hardly grounds for you constant name-calling and derogatory remarks.

    Again, moving forward, since you obviously don’t care for me personally, I again suggest you ignore my posts and not reply. I will do the same.

    Let’s agree to begin right now.